HARRY C. ARTHUR • January 26, 2010
Page 5
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1 MR. VICKERY: Well, thank you. That's
2 (Deposition Exhibits 1 through 13,
PROCEEDINGS
2 certain .-certainly true.
3 inclusive, were marked.)
3 MRS. ARTHUR: He's a real jewel, and so is 4 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Todayls date is
4 his wife. 5 January 26, 2010. This is the videotaped deposition of
5 MR. VICKERY: Welcome, you two, to the 6 Harry Arthur. We are on the record at 1:12.
6 courtroom. 7 Would the attorneys introduce themselves
7 Q. (By Mr. Vickery) 1also want to -~ to start 6 for the record, please.
8 with an apology. We do not apologize for feeding the 9 MR. VICKERY: I'm Andy Vickery. I
9 poor or providing clothes or washing clothes or 10 represent the Beacon, and I also represent Christ Church 10 providing showers or anything else, nor do we believe 11 CathedraL
11 that we have done anything that's legally wrong or 12 MR. McKINNEY: Andrew McKinney, co-counsel 12 cognoscible. However, if you, as our neighbor, believe 13 with --with Mr. Vickery, for Christ Church Cathedral.
13 that we have not listened to you, have not dialogued 14 THE WITNESS: Harry Arthur. I'm the
14 with you about whatever concerns you have as our 15 plaintiff.
15 neighbor, J want to apologize for that and to assure you 16 MR. VICKERY: And, of course, a lawyer as
16 that regardless of what happens with this lawsuit, it is 17 well, so you're representing yourself, right?
17 our intent to listen to you, and to all of our 16 THE WITNESS: Correct.
18 neighbors, and to dialogue with you and all of our 19 MR. VICKERY: Mr. Arthur, we had a
19 neighbors in any way we can to be good neighbors, Okay? 20 discussion before we started, but I accept your oath as
20 A. All right. 21 a lawyer and officer of the Court to tell the truth here
21 Q. Now, we're here today because of a lawsuit that 22 and do not require any additional oath from you.
22 you filed a couple of days before Thanksgiving in 2009, 23 Is that okay with you?
23 right? 24 THE WITNESS: That is fine.
24 A. Yes, sir. 25 MR. VICKERY: Let the court reporter's
25 Q. And that's a little different circumstance here
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1 certificate reflect that agreement, if you would.
1 because since you're both the lawyer of record lor the
2 (Time noted: 1:13 p.m.)
2 plaintiff and the plaintiff himself, 1may ask things 3 EXAMINATION
3 that you put your lawyer hat on and want to answer from 4 BY MR. VICKERY:
4 a legal theory standpoint, and I may ask fact questions,
5 Q. Mr. Arthur, as you know, I remember both Christ
5 so if f do and you need to differentiate your answer
6 Church Cathedral and the entity you've named as the
6 between the two, please do so. Okay?
7 Beacon. You understand that's a d/b/a of Cathedral
7 A. All right.
8 Health and Outreach Ministries, right?
8 Q. I also want to be very careful throughout the
9 A. Well, Pm not exactly sure, but somehow they're
9 course of the deposition today to distinguish between i 0 connected.
10 things that are your opinion and things which you can 11 Q. All right. I want to --to begin, first of
11 state from personal knowledge to be your facts. You 12 all, by welcoming you and your wife to the Paul F.
12 understand that distinction, do you not? 13 Waldner courtroom. t didn't realize until your wife
13 A. Yes, sir. 14 shared it with me before we started that y'all were
14 Q. Okay. Let me see if I can first get an 15 neighbors of my partner, Paul Waldner and-¬
15 understanding and handle on your --your legal theory. 16 A. Our daughter went to --went all the way
16 You have sued us under a nuisance theory, 17 through school with his daughter.
17 correct? 18 MRS. ARTHUR: With Jennifer.
18 A. Correct. 19 Q. (By Mr. Vickery) Well, after his little sojourn
19 Q. And as a lawyer, you understand there are 20 last year with the cardiac arrest and the anoxic brain
20 different kinds of nuisances under Texas law. 21 injury, we renamed this courtroom in his honor, and
21 A. Well, to tell you the truth, I don't know that 22 that's his law license hanging right behind you on the
22 I've ever filed a lawsuit --well, I have a client now 23 wall there.
23 that is suing --she did her own petition, and she sued 24 MRS. ARTHUR: Well, you couldn't have
24 somebody for nuisance, but as far as I know, this is the 25 picked a nicer man.
25 first time in 40 years that I've ever filed ar:tything for
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1 a nuisance.
1 A. That is true.
2 Q. Okay. Well, you sued -¬
2 Q. I am going to show you here on the Civil
3 Practice and Remedies Code -it you don't mind my
3 A. And I was reading the definition last night and
4 looking over your shoulder --Section 125001, Subsection
4 realized that it's not only a private nuisance, but a
5 2, says "A public nuisance is a nuisance described by
5 public nuisance because my --my understanding, and
6 Section 125062 or 125063," and I would ask you if you
6 I'm •• this is the way I read it last night, private is
7 would turn to those two sections and read the definition
7 it mainly affects you or a small group, and public, it
6 of a public nuisance.
e affects a large group.
9 A. (Witness reviews document.)
S Q. Okay. Well, that --you have helped me out
10 greatly because you --you've sued us to this point only
10 Now, I-I've already forgot --was it
11 under a private nuisance theory?
11 common nuisance or public nuisance that you asked me
12 about?
12 A. And that's one of my notes I need to amend and
13 Q. Public nuisance. That's what you said that you
13 make it a public nuisance because I'm sure more than
14 want to amend to allege -¬
14 just --well, I know•• I'm not sure --you know, I'm
15 A. Okay.
15 absolutely sure I've talked to every single neighbor,
16 Q.--right?
16 and all of them -most of them are a lot more upset
17 A. It says, "PUblic nuisance, a combination or
17 with the Beacon than I am.
18 criminal street gang that continuously or regUlarly
18 Q. Okay. Is it your understanding of the law that
19 associates in gang activities in a public nuisance" ¬
19 the distinction between a public nuisance and a private
20 "is a public nuisance."
20 nuisance is merely the number of people that are
21 Q. Right. Now that's Section 125062, right?
21 affected?
22 A. That's 125.062.
22 A. That's the way I read it. I haven't done any
23 Q. You don~ contend that Christ Church Cathedral
23 long research, and it didn't seem to be that complicated
24 or the Beacon, either one, or a combination are a street
24 a question, but that's the way O'Connors worded it, and
25 gang, do you?
25 I -and that's my understanding, yes.
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1 Q. I was --I was going to ask you what you read.
1 A. No.
2 You read Michael O'Connor's rules book and commentary?
2 Q. Okay. And what's 063?
3 A. Yes.
3 A. 063, "The habitual use of a place by a
4 Q. Okay.
4 combination or criminal street gang or engaging in gang
5 A. I think I read Causes of Action.
5 actiVity and" --"is a public nuisance."
6 Q. That doesnt fit with what goes on over at the
6 Q. Okay. I lake it, then, you did not read the
7 Civil Practice and Remedies Code.
7 Beacon either, does it?
6 A. No, it doesn't.
8 A. No.
9 Q. All right.
9 Q. All right. Unless there is some other
lOWe--we need to take a two-minute break.
10 statutory authority for public nuisance, would you agree
11 with me that it doesnt seem that the facts of our
11 Let's go off the record if we can.
12 situation fit any public nuisance theory?
12 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Off the record at 1:18.
13 A. What I was quoting was what I read in Causes of
13 (An off-the-record discussion was held
14 Action in O'Connor's, and that's what it said. Just
14 from 1:18 p.m. to 1:21 p.m.)
15 reading this, it does -no, it doesn't fit these two.
15 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Back on the record at
16 Q. Now, you mentioned they're a common nuisance,
16 1:21.
17 and that is also another kind of statutory cause of
17 Q. (By Mr. Vickery) Mr. Arthur, when -when you
18 action, correct? It's lisl--I believe it's 125002?
18 and! first began practicing law in Texas in the early
19 A. Well, it looks like it's 125.0015.
19 '705, nuisance was a common-law theory of liability,
20 Q. Okay.
20 right?
21 A. Common nuisance.
21 A. I--yes.
22 Q. And --and I would ask you to look at that -¬
22 Q. And do you understand that some of the theories
23 it's a long statutory definition. I'm not going to ask
23 ot liability with regard to nuisance and other things
24 you to read It, but just read it to yourself, and I --I
24 have been codified by the legislature during the
25 believe you will assure yourself that what goes on at
25 intervening years?
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1 the Beacon is not a common nuisance as defined by the
i them, but it happened. I don't want to say anybody had
2 legislature, but have a look, it you would.
2 that intent per se, but it just •• I think -. think if
3 A. (Witness complies,)'
3 you think it through and think about these things, that
4 No. It wouldn't fit that definition.
4 you would think it could well --well be some adverse
5 Q. All right. So at least right now, unless
5 effects to the neighbors.
6 Michael O'Connor can --can lead you in some other
6 Q. Okay. It all really for me relates to a
7 direction, we --can we confine our inquiries to the
7 question of culpabiilty, of whether anybody had an
8 current allegation of a private nuisance?
8 intent, whether intentional, negligent, Dr otherwise
9 A. Yes.
9 culpable because they're doing some abnormal thing to
10 Q. Okay, Sir. Now, as I read your pleadings, and
10 harm the neighbors, on one hand, or whether on the
11 I'm certainly not trying to put words In your mouth, but
i 1 other, It's we're dOing something good down there, but
12 I do not see anywhere in there that you have alleged
12 there's a secondary effect that's harmful to you and 13 that either Christ Church Cathedral or the Beacon have
13 others. Which is it?
14 done anything with the intention of hurting you or any
14 A. Well, I think after three years, it's become
15 of our neighbors. Is that true?
15 more the second scenario than the first.
i6 A. I-I don't know that I can givethis a yes or
16 Q. Okay. So in other words, no intent,
17 no answer. I'm sure the -I think like [ mentioned
17 negligence, or culpability, but the net result is you're
i8 I -a noble idea to help people, and •• but I think
18 getting hurt, and you felt i1ke you had to bring this
19 from what some of my neighbors have told me that --and
19 lawsuit.
20 some of the actions that there -there was an
20 A. Correct.
21 expectation that other people would be affected.
21 Q. All right.
22 Q. Now-¬
22 Now-¬
23 A. Neighbors, in other words.
23 A. And I-I don't know that I'd agree with you,
24 Q. The question really governs the intent. Do you
24 quote, no intent. I just •• I would say actively no
25 have any reason to believe that either Christ Church
25 intent, but I think logically when you think it through,
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i when you have that many people out on the street, would
1 Cathedral or the Beacon intend to harm you?
2 you know that it's going to affect your neighbors.
2 A. Well, not in a direct way, but apparently by
3 Q. You know of nothing that anyone has said or
3 operating this, they knew that it would be -impact
4 done to indicate that anyone at the Cathedral or CHaM or
4 their neighbors, and they went ahead and did it anyway
5 the Beacon had an intent to harm the neighbors, do you,
5 secretly.
6 sir?
6 Q. Okay. So as you sit here today, your testimony
7 is that they had an intent, whether directly or
7 A. I wouldn't go --no, I wouldn't say that. I
8 Indirectly, to harm their neighbors?
8 wouldn't agree with that statement.
9 Q. So you do know --tell me, then --well, who
9 A. I don't -. I don't think anybody sat around and
10 said what? What person said what thing that indicated
10 did this to harm the neighbors.
11 Q. Well, that's what \ read in your pleadings, but
11 to you that they had an intent to harm the neighbors.
i2 did-¬
12 A. When my wife and I started attending the
i3 A. But, I think you would have to know when you've
13 meetings with Bob Eury and the Houston Downtown
14 Management District about this problem, [ started
i4 got 2-or 300 people all at one time, they're standing
is right on your street, that there's going to be some harm
15 talking with more of the people that obviously these are
16 to your neighbors.
16 the people that were at the meeting because the main
i7 Q. Okay. Well, I mean, isn1 really what you're
17 purpose of one of the meetings about three months ago
16 saying is that --that no matter how noble the --the
18 was the Beacon. They talked about some other things,
i9 intent was to leed the homeless and provide showers and
19 and there were some people from other areas of downtown,
20 bathrooms and thaI sort of thing, that the impact,
20 but that was the main topic of conversation.
21 regardless of the intent, that the impact on the
21 Deborah Keyser, who is directly across the
22 neighbors is something that, in your judgment, creates a
22 street, 515 Caroline, has her law office and also was
23 nuisance?
23 building an apartment to live there all the time, and
24 A. Yeah. In other words, there may not have been
24 her husband is James Stanford. And when they learned by
25 foresight into that thinking, I'm going to inconvenience
25 questioning the contractor that was building this
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1 facility that it was going to be a soup kitchen, they
1 George Brown Convention Center.
2 asked for a meeting, and they said they met with a Cece
2 Q. And this is sort of an ad hoc group of
3 Fowler, who is supposed to be the head of the Beacon,
3 neighbors that are concerned about issues relating to
4 and some gentleman, whose name they didn't recall, who
4 the Beacon.
5 was also supposed to be a -a head of the 8~ the
s A. Correct.
6 Beacon.
6 Q. So the first meeting you went to is ;n October
7 Q. Let me .~ let me cut you off, if I may. I
7 of 109.
8 don't mean to interrupt you, but what you're telling me
a A. I don't recall the exact date, but it was about
9 right now is secondhand information you've learned from
9 that time.
10 Deborah Keyser, right? ..
10 Q. Okay. Now, in your --in your petition, you
11 A. That's right.
11 suggest, if don't outright allege, that there have been
12 Q. Okay. f really want to focus our attention
12 efforts made to talk to the folks at the church and at
13 first, if we can, on what you know. Okay? You know
13 the Beacon, and -and we've not been responsive,
14 that a witness has to have personal knowledge to testify
14 nobody's been willing to listen or talk to you, and I
15 10 facts, right?
15 want to confine myself to you personally. what's within
16 A. Sure.
16 your personal knowledge. Okay?
17 Q. Okay. And I know this is-¬
17 Have you ever met Dean Joe Reynolds, who's
18 A. You asked for how. I got to that opinion,
18 sitting here before today?
19 though, that there was an intention, at least that's-¬
19 A. No.
20 maybe I didn't understand the Question.
20 Q. Have you ever had any communication with him?
21 Q. I -I understand entirely, and you're trying
21 A. No.
22 to be helpful to me. I'm oot fussing at you. But as I
22 Q. Have you ever tried to have communication with
23 told you right up front, I want to distinguish between
23 him?
24 fact and opinion, and I want to distinguish between
24 A. No.
25 things of which you have personal knowledge and things
25 Q. Have you ever tried to have communication with
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1 the executive director of the Beacon?
1 of which you have secondary knowledge from Deborah
2 A. No.
2 Keyser or others. Okay?
3 Q. Have you ever tried to have any communication
3 A. All right. The information I have Ithink is
4 with anybody, either at the church or at the Beacon?
4 all secondary. I don't know that "ve got any direct¬
5 Q. Okay.
5 A. No.
B Q. Okay. So whatever information you have about
6 A.-knowledge.
7 the church or the Beacon not being atlentive, not being
7 Q. All right. That's what Ithought, and 1
8 cooperative, not being willing to do something is all
B appreciate you clarifying for me.
9 secondhand information.
9 I'm aware of the town hall meeting at the
10 end of October of 2009 at Bob Eury's office. Did you
10 A. That's true.
11 Q. Other Ihan Deborah Keyser, what other sources
11 go to any similar kind of meeting before October of
12 2009?
12 of secondhand information do you have?
13 A. I don't think so.
13 A. Well, Deborah Keyser and James Stafford,
14 Q. Have you been to any similar kind of meeting
14 Richard Wilkins. Let's see who else.
15 since -~
15 Q. Is he a neighboring property owner?
16 A. Yes.
16 A. He is the manager of the Continental Center,
17 Q. ~~ October?
17 which is 1217 Prairie, which is right across the street
18 A. Two.
18 on Prairie from the Beacon. Also Peggy Schrodi and
19 Q. Was the most recent one last Wednesday?
19 Susan Ward-Freeman with the Alden Hotel, and the young
20 A. No. I think I'm -I guess there's been three,
20 lady that owns the lawn detail -just a second. I
21 then.
21 can't rememb&r -reason I brought this so I could~¬
2 Q. All right. And did all of those meetings
22 Tina Difuedo [phonetic].
23 happen at Mr. Eury's office?
23 Q. Okay.
24 A. No. One of them was,at Captain Zarva's office
24 A. And there's some others that are -live there
25 with the Houston Police Department. It's over in the
25 or around, but I think those are the main property
E
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MRS. ARTHUR: His parents -¬2 A. And then -¬3 THE COURT REPORTER: Excuse me. 4 A. -I bought out his parents. And then Larry 5 still was, and then he wanted to buy a tennis club, and 6 so I bought him out. 7 Q. (By Mr. Vickery) Okay. When did you buyout 8 Larry Justice for his one~fourth interest?
9 A. I don't know. 10 Q. Was his one-fourth interest just in the 11 building, in other words-¬12 A. Yes. 13 Q. ~-the building and its tracts, not the parking
141017
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. Did you and your wife own the parking lot free 17 and clear, 50/50, from the get-go? 18 A. Ves. 19 Q. And still do. 20 A. And still do. 21 Q. Okay. So when we're talking about Mr. Justice 22 and this other parcel, we're talking about the 23 5,000 square feet that has the Marine Building on it, 24 right?
•
25 A. Correct.
Page 34
1 Q. Can you ballpark what he was paid for his one 2 quarter interest of that? 3 A. No, I can't. 4 Q. At! right. Now, I interrupted you when you 5 were kind of giving me a rendition of the value of the 6 property, and you said a million 50 for the combined 7 whole kit and caboodle in 1990 per appraisal, a million 8 four to a million SIX per appraisal by Wachovia Bank in 9 2006. Can you update it after that?
10 A.I don't have any updates from --from anybody 11 else other than our taxes, what the tax•-Harris County 12 Appraisal District-¬13 Q. Now, the Harris County Appraisal District for 14 2009 lists the land value of $600,000 for the western 15 half where the building is and $600,000 for the eastern 16 half where the parking lot is. 17 A. I believe that's correct. 18 Q. And --and do you agree that thai is actually 19 below the fair market value of those combined parcels, 20 land value in 2009? 21 A. No. I would say it's more, in my opinion. 22 MRS. ARTHUR: No, wait. He's ~-no, 23 you're not hearing it right. 24 Q. (By Mr. Vickery) Let me try again. As the -¬25 A. Well, I don't think anybody would offer
Page 35 1 $600,000 for that parking lot. 2 Q. So you think it's overvalued. 3 A. Well, I don't know. They --I haven't really 4 got involved in this kind of thing, but it would be my 5 thought that that might be a little bit overvalued, but 6 it may not be. 7 Q. Did you -¬8 A. They're usually pretty close. 9 Q. Well, you --they assess $15,000 worth of taxes
10 on that parking lot property, so did you protest the
11 valuation?
12 A. I'm sure we probably did. I don't know. To
13 answer your question, but we may have. We had several
14 properties, and we may have protested that. I can't
15 answer.
16 Q. Well, can we agree --I can show you the
17 document if you need to refresh your recollection --but
18 that the tax ~-the tax assessment was 600 for the
19 parking lot, 600 for the land underneath The Marine
20 Building, and an extra 285 for the building itself in 21 2009.
22 A. I think that's correct.
23 Q. Okay. So that's about a mittion 485. right? 2• MRS. ARTHUR: Yes. 25 A. A little quick for me.
Page 36 1 Q. (By Mr. Vickery) Okay. Which is really right 2 in the middle of the range that the 2006 appraisal was. 3 A. Correct.
4 Q. Okay. So what year did the Beacon start? 5 A. The what again?
6 Q. What year did --what year was it that --that
7 Christ Church Cathedral finished at! the construction on
8 that block across from you and began operations of the
9 Beacon?
10 A. Must have been 2006.
11 Q. It was actually January of 2007.
12 A. Oh. 13 Q. Okay? So if the value of this property was a 14 mlttion fOUf to a million six in 2006, per appraisal,
15 and it's a million 485 in 2009, where's the loss of fair
16 market value?
17 A. Well, if you just looked at that, might not be.
18 Q. Do you have any other facts indicating that
19 there's a loss in fair market value of your property?
20 A. Yes. 21 Q. What facts?
22 A. We listed it about a year and a half ago
23 with --and I put the information -Carlos Bujosa is
24 the actual agent we dealt with in his real estate firm,
25 and they marketed it and brought a bunch of folks by.
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Page 39 1 And Kathy would show them around and visit, and I'd
1 or Class C office buildings in downtown Hous1on-, Texas, 2 shake hands and introduce myself and introduce them, and
2 from which 10 base a comparable? 3 I tried to stay out of it, and nobody wanted to pay near
3 A. He didn't show me. 4 that amount.
4 Q. And was his advice based on actual sales? S Q. Okay. So you had an appraisal in 2006 for
5 A. I --I don't know whether it was actual sales 6 somewhere between million four and a million six,
6 or just his experience or just his knowledge of what was 7 correct?
7 going on and other people were doing. I don't know B A. Correct.
8 exactly, but he said we need to come down if we wanted 9 Q. And 2008 you listed your property for sale.
9 to try to --really try to sell it. And if he was going
'0 A. Correct.
10 to really try to market it, and we did, and then we kind " Q. Now, did you list it for a million four or a
11 of indicated to him we might come down some more if 12 million six or somewhere in between?
12 somebody made a legitimate offer. 13 A. I think the original amount we said ~~ told
13 Q. Okay. Mr. Arthur, what is it thai caused you 14 Carlos was 2.2.
14 after, what, 28 years to decide to try to sell your 15 Q. That's what I saw. That's why I was confused.
15 building in 'DB? You're cutting your eyes at your wife. 16 You listed it for 2.2 million.
16 Should I ask her instead?
17 A. Correct.
17 A. She wanted to sell the house in Friendswood and 18 Q. And you didn't get any takers.
18 just move up to our farm and wanted to kind of get out 19 A. No. 19 from under all the day-ta-day elevator doesn't work, the 20 Q. Did you ever say. Well, that listing's a little 1 20 air conditioner doesn't work, the plumbing is give -¬21 too high, let's list it for what the real fair market
21 delegate --let somebody handle it. I intended on --I
22 value is to ¬
22 told people I would keep an office there in the 23 A. Yes.
23 building, but I wanted to come in one day and them not
24 Q. -see if there's a buyer?
24 say that the air conditioner was not working, and it's 25 A. Yes.
25 95 degrees. And those kinds of things. Page 38
Page 40 1 Q. SO you .-you did lower the listing price?
1 Q. Smart lady.
2 A. Yes.
2 So it was really a lifestyle change -¬
3 Q. To what?
3 A. Correct.
4 A. 1.6, as I recall.
4 Q. --given --given your age and the fact you
5 Q. Okay. And no nibbles at i .6.
5 owned property -¬
6 A. Correct.
6 A. RighI.
7 Q. And that was in 2008.
7 Q. --in the country.
8 A. No. That was in 2009.
6 And I was curious in the listing agreement
9 Q. 2009. Okay.
9J saw it said that ~-the owner was willing to stay
10 You reckon the economy might've had
10 there. 11 something to do with that?
11 A. RighI.
12 A. Could be. May.
12 Q. So even in '08 and even in '09, knOWing what
13 Q.I mean, was the listing price, either the
13 was going on across the street with regard to the
14 original 2.2 million in October of '08 or the
14 Beacon, you were willing to maintain your law office in
15 1.6 million in 2009, based on any comparables?
15 that building if someone else came in and bought it. I
16 A.I _0 my understanding from reading the paper,
16 A. Correct.
17 and that's the only information I know, just reading the
17 Q. Okay. And --and the listing also said in '08, 18 paper, and they were talking about Houston not being
18 late '08, "significant upside potential." Do I need to 19 affected that much, new home sales or building was
19 show that to you, or do you recollect it?
20 slowing down, but they didn't indicate initially like
20 A. No, I don't recollect it.
21 office buildings, those kind of things. And then later
21 Q. Let me show you. 22 on Ithink they indicated they were affected. And -so
22 MRS. ARTHUR: May --may I intervene? 23 the reason we lowered it was because Carlos said people
23 MR. VICKERY: Not quite at this point.
24 are not going to pay 2.2.
24 MRS. ARTHUR: Okay. I'm sorry. 25 Q. Did Carlos show you any actual sales of Class B
25 MR. VICKERY: But I promise I -¬
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1 A. But to answer your question, I don't recall
1 Q. Okay. I don't see anywhere in your listing
2 what that would refer to.
2 information there where you said, Oh, by the way, this
3 Q. (By Mr. Vickery) Okay.
3 property's located directly across t~e street from a
4 A. Or where that came from, whether it came from
4 nuisance.
5 Carlos, it came from me, or it came from Kathy.
s A. No.
6 Q. This is Exhibit 13 to your deposition, and you
B Q. Did you?
7 see •• stuff you faxed to me yesterday, and this is
7 A. No.
8 the --the listing infonnation from Carlos BUjosa -¬
8 Q. Did you tell Mr. Duhosa that you thought
9 A. Correct.
9 that --it --the location of this property in proximity
10 Q.•-at McDade, Smith, Gould, Johnston, Mason &
10 to something that you claim is a nuisance might be a
11 Company, right?
11 detriment to either the rental rates or the fair market
12 A. Yes.
12 value?
13 Q. And these are the people you listed it with in
13 A. I don't recall ever talking with Mr. Duhosa
'4 October of 'DB.
14 about ~-about the Beacon.
15 A. Correcl
15 Q. Ever?
16 a. And you see here where it says, "Property is a
16 A. Ever.
17 great user opportunity with low rents and upside
17 Q. To this day?
18 potential. Owner willing to remain a tenant."
18 A. To this day.
19 A. Correct.
19 Q. Well, you've listed him as an expert in your
20 Q. Now, what's the upside potential?
20 disclosures, right?
21 A.I don't know. That term didn't come from me.
21 A. He is an expert as far as I know.
22 I don't know what he was thinking exactly.
22 Q. Well, do you have any idea what his opinion is
23 Q. Do you believe that when you listed it there
23 going to be, Vis-a-vis the question, of whether the
24 and said that the property had upside potential in
24 proximity to the Beacon adversely affects the value of
25 October of '08 that, in fact, it did?
25 that property?
Paqe 42
Page 44
1 A. No.
1 A. I am sure that there's people that could run
2 Q. You listed a second expert. My mind is
2 things a lot better than me. I'm trying to practice
3 blanking on it. I can look it up for you.
3 law, and I'm sure if somebody was really in the
4 business, they can do a better job than I --than I
4 A.I think I put Jack Markman.
5 did-¬
5 Q. Yeah, now, who is he?
6 Q. Well, it said -¬
6 A. He's a real estate investor and has been for
7 A. --through the years.
7 40 years in Houston.
8 Q. I'm sorry. I didn't mean to cut you off.
8 Q. Have you talked to him?
9 It says, "Low rents." Is part of the
9 A. A little bit. We went to the game together in
10 upside potential that you might be able to charge higher
10 Los Angeles, and I think it came up, and he was asking
11 rents?
11 about the --what was in the paper and --but as far as
12 A. Possibly, yeah.
12 that kind of thing, no, we --he's just an expert.
13 Q. And if you'll look on the second page there, it
13 Q. What-¬
14 says the occupancy at that point in time was 80 percent
14 A, (Inaudible.)
15 of the building. Is part of the upside potential that
15 Q. What familiarity does he have with your
16 you might increase the occupancy even if the rent rates
16 property?
17 remained the same?
17 A. Oh, nothing more than I've been there for
18 A.I would presume so. I~~ I don't know.
18 years, and he knows me, been there and goes to ball
19 Q. Okay. And if you thought it was potentially
19 games and knows where it is, and -and he'd have to I
20 worth 2.2 million when you first listed it in October of
20 research up and do some --you know, be brought up to
21 '08, but you're willing to sell it tor 1.6 in '09, you
21 speed, but it's just a real estate expert. That's what
22 must think that there's at least some opportunity for
22 he does, buys and sells real estate.
23 upside potential in terms of increase in the fair market
23 Q. Okay. I go to ball games, and before we built
24 value. True?
24 the parking lot at the Cathedral, I used to park in your
25 A. I'm not sure I follow that.
25 lot. But has he been inside your bunding?
HANNA & HANNA, INC.
(713) 840-8484
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Page 13 (Pages 49-52) HARRY C. ARTHUR -January 26, 2010
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1 Q. What would you estimate, just maybe in terms of
1 A. Don't hold me to that. I'm just talking off
2 either rental dollars or square footage, to be the
2 the top of my head. I ~~ my wife could tell you better
3 percentage of your tenant population whose services
3 than me.
4 relate to the criminal justice system? Understand what
4 MR. VICKERY: Is he right?
5 [mean? Whether in terms of criminal defense lawyer,
5 A. I don't know.
6 investigator, bail bondsmen.
6 Q. (By Mr. Vickery) Okay.
7 A. I'd have to just go through the list and
7 A. I-Ican just picture in my mind what's
8 vacant and whars not, and I couldn't ~~ and I know we
B check --check them off. I'd hate to come up with
9 something off the top of my head because -but most
9 had some vacancies then, and we got some now.
10 Q. Was the ~. the level of occupancy approximately
10 everybody that's not me --trying to think of
11 the same in '06 when the appraisal was done as it was in
11 somebody that --that isn't involved, any of the other
12 '08 when you listed it for sale?
12 lawyers that -¬
13 MRS. ARTHUR: Cafe.
13 A. No, Ithink in '06 we had Anthony there, and we
14 THE WITNESS; Who?
14 also had -had ~~
15 MRS. ARTHUR: Mark Thering was there.
15 MRS. ARTHUR: Cafe. The deli.
16 THE WITNESS: Well, that's true.
16 A. Mark Thering, and also Reed Brooks, and space
17 on the third floor, and maybe somebody else who I'm
17 A. Yeah, we've got a deli that's downstairs on the
18 first floor. They're not. And then I don't think Wes
18 forgetting. No, it was probably more people there then.
19 Q. (By Mr. Vickery) Okay. The appraisal, of
19 Clements has all that many criminals. More of his stuff
20 course, would reflect the level of occupancy. wouldn't
20 is divorces and probate matters and estates, and -but
21 it?
21 [inaudible]. But most of the rest of them, and the
22 A.I don't know whether they looked at that so
22 bonding companies, obviously, are all criminal related.
23 Q. (By Mr. Vickery) And I assume they see their
23 much or not. My guess is they looked at other buildings
24 clients in your building.
24 and the space and the condition of the building and what
25 A. No, they really don't.
25 other buildings were going for. That's what they
Page 50
Page 52
1 Q. Really?
1 normally look at.
2 A. They met them usually in court.
2 Q. Incidentally, how much were ~~ were you
3 Q. And ~~
3 borrowing in '06 when you did the refinancing?
4 A. Very, very few come by the office.
4 A. You'll have to ask my wife. I don't recall.
s Q. lncluding the bail bondsmen?
s MRS. ARTHUR: 433,000.
6 A. Now, I'm sure the bailmen, they come all the
6 MR. VICKERY: 433,000 she says.
7 time there. No, they stand around. They're in the
7 Q. (By Mr. Vickery) You accept that?
8 lobby and in their office, and those kind of things, but
8 A.I don't know.
9 they let them in. They don't leave them out on the
9 Q. Okay. Was it collateralized by the building
10 street. They ~~ they lock the doors at night, and then
10 and the tract of land it sits on or by the whole kit and
11 they ring the bell, they'll let them in, and then they
11 caboodle?
12 go into their office and wait and that kind of thing.
12 MRS. ARTHUR: They collateralized it.
13 Q. Okay. Mr. Arthur, we saw from the listing
13 Q. (By Mr. Vickery) All of it.
14 agreement that in '08 when you listed the building, it
14 Is this a Class B building?
'5 was 80 percent occupied, right?
15 MRS. ARTHUR: It's -~ I don't have the
16 A. That's probably ~-probably right. If that's
16 paperwork with me, so 1can~ tell you.
,7 what we said, that's probably right.
17 Q. (By Mr. Vickery) It's either B or C, right?
18 Q. What percent occupancy do you have today?
18 A. You got me. I've never heard that.
19 A. In '08 -well, I don't know. One of the
19 Q. Do you know what has happened over the course
20 lawyers who had ~~ was there, and he moved out. He
20 of the last three years while the Beacon's been opened
21 moved back. And one of the others that had a pretty
21 to the value of Class B or C office buildings in
22 good size space moved out. It's still vacant. I don't
22 downtown Houston?
23 know ~~ it might be a little bit ~~ it's probably a
23 A. No.
24 little bit less. Who knows. But maybe 70 percent.
24 Q. Okay. Can you tell me whether there is any
25 Q. 70 percent today you think?
25 tenant that is either left your building or refused to
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1 Q. (By Mr. Vickery} Mr. Arthur, during the break
1 lease office space from you whose reason expressed to
2 you was because of what goes on across the street at the
2 I .-t put up on the witness stand there Exhibit 2,
3 Beacon?
3 which is your supplemental disclosures in this case, and
4 A. My wife ha.s talked to some, but, no, not to me.
4 I think iI's actually amended and supplemental, and it
s Q. You're unaware of any.
5 includes everything that was in the originals plus at
6 least one additional item, a.nd that's the gentleman you
6 A. No, I wouldn't say I'm unaware. I'm just
7 saying personally, I didn't talk with them.
7 went to the bal1game with, right?
e Q. You haven't heard it.
8 A. Well, 1know it had -it•~ I think there's
9 MR. VICKERY: You want to tell me -¬
9 some more additions, but I'd have to compare the two to
lOA. No. I say I've heard it.
10 tell you exactly, but as best I recall,l think I put a
11 MRS. ARTHUR: He did.
11 few more things.
12 A. But I didn't¬
12 Q. Okay. We've already talked about Mr. Eury and
13 MRS. ARTHUR: [Inaudible.]
13 Mayor Bloomberg -~
14 A. hear it from -¬
_M
14 A. Correct.
15 THE COURT REPORTER: Excuse me. 1--1
15 Q. --who you disclosed. You also disclosed our
16 apologize. but¬
16 mutual friend, Michael Callahan, who you helped when he
17 MR. VICKERY: I know. You've got to have
17 was a young pup fresh out of law school, right?
18 a clean record.
18 A. That's true.
19 Q, (By Mr. Vickery) Let's all --let's all agree
19 Q. And who's still-¬
20 to work and play well together. I won't talk while
20 A. I'm very proud of him; he's wonderful.
21 either of you are talking, if you will do the same.
21 Q. And a wonderful lawyer -¬
22 Okay?
22 A. And wonderful friend.
23 MRS. ARTHUR: There have been people that
23 Q. The big case he won the year before last -¬
24 have expressed this to me.
24 MRS. ARTHUR: However thrilled.
25 MR. VICKERY: Who?
25 MR. VICKERY: --he prepared right here in
Page 54
Page 56
1 MRS. ARTHUR: There was a lady that --and
1 this room for that case.
2 I didn't keep her card because after she said ii, I
2 MRS. ARTHUR: Really?
3 tossed it. There was a lady, and she and her husband
3 MR. VICKERY: Right here in this very
4 Were starting a business --it was going 10 be a new
4 room.
5 business. They were going to help people obtain
5 Q. (By Mr. Vickery) But I called him when I saw
6 licenses at the courthouse. She came by, and then when
6 his name listed there, and he said, I don~ want to be
7 I called her back, she said, No, I've decided not to.
7 involved in this, and I said, Well, don't blame me,
8 I'm concerned about the people across the street. 11
8 Michael, Harry's the one that listed you. And he said
9 was after that time that I started asking people to only
9 you had nottalked to him about being a witness. Is
10 come Tuesdays, Wednesdays, and Thursdays. I have only
10 that true?
11 shown the building Tuesdays, Wednesdays, and Thursdays
11 A. That's true.
12 for that reason. Because of --of that. And you can -¬
12 Q. Okay. What I want to do just for discovery
13 and ~-you know, I have instructed my Realtors to please
13 purposes is to --to go through your disclosures and for
14 observe those days, if at aU possible.
14 you to tell me anyone in here with whom you have talked
15 MR. VICKERY: Okay.
15 about this lawsuit and sort of given a heads-up, Hey,
16 I need acomfort break. I don't know if
16 I'm listing your name, you might be a witness, somebody
17 anyone else does, but let's do that and go to the
17 might call you. So-¬
18 bathroom, and then I'll get coffee for your wife. I
18 A. Well,-to save you time, I don't know that I
19 don't know about you, Harry.
19 told anybody that I may ~~ I think most people are going
20 THE WITNESS: Oh, I'll take a little bit.
20 to have the same attitude as Michael. I don't want to
21 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Off the record at 2:14.
21 get involved. Don't put my name up.
22 (A recess was taken from 2:14 p.m. to
22 Q. Okay.
23 2:25 p.m.)
23 A. And I know my neighbors are all like that.
24 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Back on the record at
24 They don't want the stigma of having their name out
25 2:25.
25 about the Beacon being there and their business being
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Page 15 (Pages 57-60) HARRY C. ARTHUR -January 26,2010
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1 Q. Your building?
1 stigmatized by the Beacon and with this. They want to
2 stay as low profile as possible.
2 A. Had run him off -yes, my building. Had to
3 Q. What do you mean being stigmatized with the
3 run him oft. He vandalized Richard Wilkins' 1966
4 Beacon? I don't understand.
4 Mercedes convertible. It was park --he parked it in
S A. Well, all you got to do is drive by it. It
5 front of my building hoping that none of the people from
6 stigmatizes everything around it. An unpleasant stigma,
6 the Beacon would be around it, and then he noticed some
7 the Alden Hotel especially don't want guests that are
7 walking around, kind of looking at it, and anyway, he
8 coming to Houston to stay at the Alden Hotel to know
8 came out to go home, and by 5:30, it had been
9 it's located, you know, in the next block from a
9 vandalized.
10 Q. Let me --let me be very specific. okay, in my
10 homeless soup kitchen.
11 Q. Well, wouldn't that make them want to be -¬
11 question. I want to know whether you or to your
12 want to be witnesses against this horrible nuisance?
12 knowledge your wife have ever personally wttnessed any
13 A. They may well be --I don't know.
13 of the following activities by a Beacon client on our
14 Q. Okay.
14 property, your property, or anyplace in between. Okay?
15 Defecating?
15 A. They hadn't done anything in three years.
16 Q. So as far as you know here, all of the people
16 MRS. ARTHUR: Yes.
17 listed as people with knowledge of relevant facts in
17 A. No, I haven't.
18 your supplemental disclosures are people, A, that you've
18 Q. (By Mr. Vickery) Urinating?
19 not talked to about this lawsuit, and --and, B, that
19 A. Well, yeah, I've seen that.
20 you've not asked about their willingness to be a
20 Q. Having sex?
21 witness.
21 A. No, I haven't seen that.
22 Q. Doing drugs?
22 A. Let me take that back. Very first --well, the
23 third name, I listed myself and my wife. Jonathan
23 A. I can't say I've seen that.
24 Gluckman is a tenant in the building, a lawyer. His
2. Q. Singing?
25 MRS. ARTHUR: Yes.
25 office is on the first floor, and Jonathan works on
Page 58
Page 60
1 Saturdays a lot, has clients come in, and .-to see him
1 A. Well, yeah.
2 on -on Saturdays.
2 Q. (By Mr. Vickery) Dancing?
3 Q. Okay.
3 A. Yeah.
4 A. And he's the one that was telling me about some
4 Q. What's wrong with singing and dancing?
5 01 the things that go on on a Saturday or weekend at the
5 A. Nothing, except if I got out in front of your
6 Beacon, and he says, I personally have seen these
6 home or in front of your business and was singing and
7 things.
7 dancing in the street, I think you'd probably object.
8 Q. Seen wha11hings?
8 Q. It depends on whether you could carry a tune or
9 A. Well, the things I enumerated in the petition.
9 not
10 Q. Black people singing and dancing?
10 A. That's probably right. You'd really object
11 A. Defecating, writhing around on each other,
11 when I start trying to sing.
12 trading drugs, all those -standing out in the street,
12 Q. Okay.
13 playing a boom box and blocking traffic, aU those
13 Have you ever seen or heard anything to
14 things he's personally seen, at least that's what he
14 indicate Ihat any employee or agent of Christ Church
15 tells me.
15 Cathedral and the Beacon has ever condoned or encouraged
16 Q. Okay.
16 any person to trespass on your property or to do any of
17 A. And I said, Well, thank you. I may call on
17 those things that you just described?
18 YOU.
18 MRS. ARTHUR: Can 1•-can I say
19 Q. Have you ever seen any of those things?
19 something?
20 A.. Well, I see -yesterday. walk out the door,
20 MR. VICKERY: Wait a minute. Let's get¬
21 there's a police officer. Every day we have tile police
21 A. Let me put it this way. It doesn't make any
22 there. And sometimes they have an ambulance. You know,
22 difference who the group is. If I had clients•-I wish
23 this is a daily occurrence. I see them still walking
23 Idid--andI had two or -hundred or 300 that
24 out in the street laying on things. One of them Sunday
24 appeared all at one time, and I wouldn't let them in the
25 was sleeping against the building.
25 building, and I locked them out and made them stand
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Page 16 (Pages 61-64) HARRY C. ARTHUR . January 26, 2010
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1 meals.
1 around ':Jut on the street and sidewalk, it would create a
2 Q. And what was ¬
2 problem for my neighbors. And if I did this four days a
3 week, I know it'd create a lot of problems for my
3 A. ~-beautiful bUilding.
4 Q. And what was just further down on Caroline?
4 neighbors even if they were the most clean-cut, nicest
5 people in the world, because they're not just going to
5 A. The Star of Hope. No, on Caroline. I don't
6 orderly stand around. They're going to wander around.
6 know. What was it?
7 Q. In the same block. wasn~ if Compass, a
7 They're going to have to use the bathroom. There's
B homeless ministry?
8 going to be other things that are going to happen, and
9 so nobody could do it even with those kind of people.
9 A. I think Compass or•-I don't recall them
10 disrupting things, or at least they weren't across from
10 And, you know, " m not complaining about feeding the
11 my building. My understanding is Compass limits the
11 homeless. That's a great idea. I just think it could
12 be done in other places that don't disrupt your
12 people that they handled each day. I don't know whether
13 neighbors and don't have to be done in the -you know,
13 it•s 20 or 50, they handle those people, let them in ¬
14 the downtown business district, because on Tuesdays,
14 do what they can, and then they're gone. They don't
15 Wednesdays, and Thursdays, it's nice. They're gone.
15 hang around all day.
16 What attracts them is the Beacon.
16 Q. Mr. Arthur, you know that the --the mission of
17 Q. (By Mr. Vickery) So it's okay to feed the
17 the Christian church, and indeed the admonition from the
18 homeless?
18 founder of the Christian church, for 2000 years has been
19 A. Sure.
19 to take care of the poor and the homeless, to feed them,
20 Q. Is it okay to provide baths for the homeless?
20 to bathe them. to take care of those folks.
21 A. Sure.
21 You know that, don't you?
22 Q. [s it okay to provide laundry facilities so
22 A. And that's not what this lawsuit's about.
23 they got clean clothes?
23 Q. I know.
24 A. Sure.
24 A. I know that, and they keep doing it.
25 Q. Now, I guess -¬
25 Q. Okay. All right. So how would you like for us
Page. 62
Page 64
1 to do that, then?
1 A. That's good.
2 Q. ~h il stands to reason that if people are
2 A. I would like for you to do it like Sheltering
3 cleaner, in their bodies and lheir clothes, they smell
3 Arms. I passed that today. It's at -not in the
4 better, true?
4 central business district. It's another Episcopal
5 A. True. That's true.
5 church, I understand, that does similar things to Christ
6 Q. And I guess if they're well ted, then they're
6 Church, and I notice them standing around on the
7 probably less likely to -to be bothersome to whoever
7 sidewalks and out in the street as I passed this
8 they encounter, aren't they?
8 morning, but at least theY're not bothering their
9 A. I don't know about that. I wouldn't go quite
9 neighbors.
10 that far, but they would be better if they took a shower
10 Q. So you want us to do it somewhere other than
11 and had clean clothes. But I don't know that
11 downtown Houston,
12 standing --you know, that they have to stand out in the
12 A. Exactly.
13 street or on the sidewalk or sleep on the sidewalks to
13 Q. You know that what we're doing is part and
14 do that. I think you can do that without that.
14 parcel of the --the free exercise of religion by the
15 Q. Now, you do know --of course, you knew before
15 people at Christ Church Cathedral and CHOM, don't you?
16 you acqUired this propel1y in 1981 that Christ Church
16 A. Well, I think there's always a line. You can
17 Cathedral has been there on that corner for well over a
17 practice your religion, but I think, you know, there are
18 hundred years. You knew that, didn't you?
18 certain lines that are drawn that even the churches
19 A. Well, as best I recall on that corner, yes, I
19 can't step over and do certain things. They try to keep
20 knew -had been there for a long time, but on that
20 church and state separate, but when you're doing
21 corner, Christ Church -what can you -didn't even own
21 something as part of your religion that affects other
22 that. I think they owned part of the parking lot, but I
22 people, then I think you've stepped over the line.
23 Q. Do you have any reason to doubt the religious
23 don't know when they acquired it. But there was a nice
24 building there, they put --had the courthouse club, a
24 sincerity of the motivations behind the ministries of
25 restaurant, a lot of lawyers went there, wonderful
25 Christ Church Cathedral through CHOM and the Beacon?
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1 A. No.
1 Q. Okay. Now, I've been told that the only bus
2 Q. And you also know as a lawyer of many years
2 thafs identifiable that's bringing folks in to the area
3 standing that citizens in the United States of America
3 of the Beacon is a bus that says something like Project
4 and Texas, under the Texas Constitution, have a right to
4 Access on it. Have you seen that bus?
5 assemble peacefully, don't you?
5 A. No.
6 A. I don't know where you draw the line on that
6 MR. VICKERY: Have you seen that bus?
7 either. I know most of the time they have to get a
7 MRS. ARTHUR: I'll get you some pictures
8 permit in Houston if you're going to assemble out in the
B we've taken.
9 streets.
9 MR. VICKERY: That's the bus, isn't it?
10 Q. Do you have any reason to believe that the
10 MRS. ARTHUR: It's a white bus.
11 Beacon does not have the appropriate permits as required
11 MR. VICKERY; That's what I understand
12 by the Health Department, the building inspector, the
12 Ms. Keyser was complaining about•¬
13 fire department, all of that?
13 MRS. ARTHUR: Uh-huh.
14 MR. VICKERY: --was some bus that said
14 A. I have no idea. I don't even know they're
15 Project Access on it -¬
15 required to do it, but I -so I don't have any idea.
16 MRS. ARTHUR: It's a whIte bus.
16 Q. Okay. Now, one of the things you allege is
17 MR. VICKERY: --that~ busing folks into
17 that because of the services that are being rendered at
18 the Beacon. Is that the source of our busing issue?
18 the Beacon, somebody is busing folks into the Beacon.
19 MRS. ARTHUR: It's one of them.
19 Do you remember that allegation?
20 MR. VICKERY: Okay.
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. (By Mr. Vickery) And if that bus is run by the
21 Q. And it's in your lawsuit and in your
22 City of Houston or Metro, are they the ones you should
22 disclosures, right?
23 be fussing at about busing?
23 A. Right.
24 A. Well, they don't bus them to my office; I know
24 Q. Now, are you mad at us because somebody else is
25 that
25 busing folks in, or are you mad at whoever's doing that
Page 66
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1 busing in?
1 Q. Okay. I'm Just wondering who -¬
2 A. I am upset, I guess you could say mad. I think
2 A.I think whoever is welcoming them with open
3 if you're going to try to do something, you ought to do
3 arms, that's the person that I'm blaming. I'm blaming
4 it for people that -where you can control it. And I
4 the people that bus them down there. Number one, why do
5 think anybody doing any kind of activity downtown is
5 you do this; and, number two, if you say, Okay, come on
6 obligated to try to do it without it affecting other
6 in, I'm blaming the Beacon.
7 Q. Okay. For --for being there. You're blaming
7 people, and if you can only do it with 20 people, you do
8 20 people. If you don't have the facilities or the
B the Beacon for being there?
9 manpower or the means to do it for 50 people, then cut
9 A. No, not for being there, but for handling more
10 it back to 20. And certainly don't do it for two or 300
10 people than they can professionally handle.
11 or 400 and bus in more people.
11 Q. Okay. So what would a reasonable church
12 Q. For the rec:ord••
12 ministry or Christian-based ministry do under the like
13 A. So, yes, I am upset that they're busing in even
13 or similar circumstances if they got hungry people at
14 their doors?
14 more people when they've already got a problem with the
15 number they have.
15 A. Well, I think they're doing it. I think -you
16 Q. Who is the "they"? When you say that "they"
16 know, I was going through the Internet and the paper,
17 are busing in more people, who is the "they"?
17 back issues, and just places driving by to see all the
18 A. I don't know.
18 places that are feeding the hungry, and I get¬
19 Q. All right. So whoever the "they' is, that's
19 Q. Is-¬
20 who you're upset with about the busing issues?
20 A. -~ letters from some of these people that have
21 A. Well, I'm sure if the Beacon said, No, we can't
21 been over at the Beacon talking about all the different
22 handle anymore, this is all we can reasonably handle
22 places, and they've got just a -they make the rounds
23 with the --and the facilities we have, please send them
23 of all of them, five or six different places where they
24 to one of the other places. And there's several, a
24 can go and get a free meal. So Beacon is not the only
25 number of them, where they can go.
25 place feeding the hungry.
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1 Q. Right, and --and it is a reasonable thing to
1 else and affect them, but I think there's plenty of
2 do for Christian people to feed hungry people, isn't it?
2 places on the edge of downtown where it doesn't impact
3 A. No -sure.
3 your neighbors, someplace Where it's a lot of vacant
4 Q. And it's a reasonable thing to do fOf Christian
4 lots, vacant buildings, warehouses, where you're not
5 people to provide showers and laundry services to dirty
5 impacting -you know, you've got people living in their
6 people, isn't it?
6 apartments. They're there all the time conducting
7 A. Well, right off the top of your head, you say
7 business, and if you did it in that kind of location,
B it's reasonable. But then again, when you -like 1¬
8 seems to me to be the answer.
9 all I know is what I read in these articles and what I
9 Q. Okay. Let's get back to your disdosures
10 read on the Internet. and they're talking about this.
10 because you -¬
11 I'm no expert DO the homeless, I'm no expert, and don't
11 A. One other thing before we -my wife says I
12 want to be. But I do know yesterday, for instance, our
12 didn't answer your question when you asked of where I
13 CPA goes to the VA hospital. He's talking about how
13 felt like we had lost -we had suffered damages. She
14 wonderful it is now they've cleaned it up, and it's a
1~ said I mentioned the value. I think the big thing was
15 lot better, and taking care of all these veterans, and
15 that after Carlos trying to market it, the best offer we
16 the doctor happened to be talking to him, and he says,
16 could get was 750,000. So fair market value is what a
17 You see these -or he admits to something about these
17 willing buyer will pay, and that's -was the ~~ all
18 guys that are on the side of the road wanting a handout
18 they thought that the building was worth, and that's
19 and say they're veterans. And he said, Do not stop.
19 just the building.
20 Don't give them any money. All you're doing is
20 Q. That's all that buyer --that person?
21 encouraging it. We need to get these people -we have
21 A. That's right. But that's the only person that
22 the facilities. We can take care of them. We can get
22 actually signed their name to an offer.
23 them off the street and into some kind of programs where
23 Q. Because they thought that was kind of a
24 they can get back to a regUlar life. And you're giving
24 distress purchase.
25 money and encouraging, and I feel the same way with what
25 A.I don't -1 don't know what their thinking
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1 the Beacon's doing that they're -. I don't know. I
1 was. I'm just telling you that before we had a value of
2 don't know what's right. I'm no expert on it. But all
2 a million four. now it's 750.
3 I do is -the people that claim to be experts saying
3 Q. Well, did you have an offer to buy at a million
4 four ~¬
4 you're not helping somebody by giving them $20 or $22,
5 or this kind of thing, or a free meal, if aU you're
5 A. No-¬
6 doing is then putting them back out on the street and
6 Q. --or did you just have an appraisal?
7 expecting them to sleep on the street, sleep on the
7 A. --no, no. That's just an appraisal.
8 Q. So you had a piece of paper -¬
8 sidewalk, sleep under the bridge, and this sort of
s thing. It -it's not correcting their --or helping
9 A.1couldn't --I wasn't selling anything.
10 Q. Right. But you didn't have an offer in 2006
10 them move their life up. That --that's --appears to
11 when you had the appraisal -¬
11 me to be the big thing. I don't know that you're
12 helping somebody by always doing that.
12 A. No-~
13 Q. For a million four.
13 Obviously, if somebody really needs
14 feeding, they need to be fed; or if they need medical
14 A. ~-no, no.
15 Q. Okay. And, of course, you know that a person
15 care, they need medical care. But there's a way-¬
16 that buys property under distressed circumstances can
16 you're not -according to the experts, not just ~~ not
17 get a really good deal, right?
17 me -you're not really helping them.
18 Q. Bottom line, Mr. Arthur, would it be okay with
18 A. Correct.
19 Q.I mean, that's, quite frankly, the deal you got
19 you and in your view okay under the law if we did
20 when you bought it from a bankruptcy trustee, isn't it?
20 everything that we're doing right now at the Beacon but
21 A. Well, that wasn't all that great a deal, but
21 we just did it somewhere else other than across the
22 it --you know, I paid it, so I guess I must have
22 street from you?
23 thought it was fair.
23 A. Correct.
24 Q. And you did buy IT from a bankruptcy trustee.
24 Q. Okay.
25 A. Right.
25 A. Well, I -I wouldn't push it off on somebody
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1 Q. Okay. Now, let's go back to your disclosures
1 people from the Beacon coming around and coming in their
2 for a minute. You identified Mr. Gluckman as one person
2 shop and just the hassle.
3 Q. Where did they move to?
3 who has some personal knowledge of these untoward
4 activities you mentioned, and --and said that he might
4 A. They moved out around the Medical Cente.r and
5 be willing to testify.
5 opened another little restaurant.
6 Anyone else on that page that you've
6 And Lacey sometimes worked there late, and
7 talked to that would be willing to testify?
7 she was complaining about the people coming by and
8 A. All right. I talked with Robin Smith and Mark
8 looking in the door, shaking it, and trying to get in.
9 Harris with Triple A Quick Bonding, and the Quick
g And were saying, you know, I always keep this door
10 Bonding place is open 2417. They're there at night,
10 Jacked. I'm not about to go outside. And they're
11 especially Mark. He runs things at night. He sees ¬
11 especially scared going to the parking lot or out on the
12 he sees everything. And I was visiting with him, and he
12 street.
13 said, you know, I'll tell you, you know, I just got my
13 MRS. ARTHUR: She's also the one that saw
14 car broken into. This never happened before. We've
14 the guy [inaudible} running -¬
15 been here I think he said 15 years. And now we got
15 A. Yeah. And then ••
16 burglaries all up and down the street, break-ins, this
16 MRS. ARTHUR: .. by a parked car-¬
17 sort of thing.
17 THE COURT REPORTER Excuse me.
18 Q. What kind of-¬
18 A.•• somebody comes over and used the bathroom
19 A. They broke in my vehicle, they broke into his
19 right outside the door.
20 vehicle, they vandalized ~. and all that --none of this
20 MR. VICKERY: Nnw, we've got to all be
21 was occurring until the Beacon opens.
21 good-¬
22 Q. So-¬
22 MRS. ARTHUR: Sorry.
23 A. So he said, Yeah, I'll be glad to testify.
23 MR. VICKERY: .. because OUf court
24 Q. Post hoc ergo propter hoc?
24 reporter can only take one of us down at a time.
25 A. Do what again?
25 MRS. ARTHUR: I'm sorry.
Page 74
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1 THE COURT REPORTER: Excuse me.
1 Q. (By Mr. Vickery) You mentioned lOCking the
2 Q. (By Mr. Vickery) Post hoc ergo propter hoc?
2 doors, and that -that causes me to ponder about
3 You mean it happened after the folks started coming to
3 something. You know as a lawyer that a person who-¬
4 the Beacon, so we assume that the people who broke into
4 who claims money damages under Texas law has an
5 this bail bondsman's car were one of our clients? Is
5 obligation to take reasonable steps to mitigate their
6 that --is that the long and short of it?
6 damages, right?
7 A. He'd been there 13 years; it had never
7 A. Correct.
8 happened. Then they opened it --I don't know. Is that
8 Q. What have you done to mitigate the damages that
9 an unfair stretch? Doesn't seem like it to me.
g you allege to be coming from the nuisance across the
10 Q. Well, I mean-¬
10 street from you?
11 A. Doesn't seem unfair to me.
11 A. I don't know what to do. There may be -maybe
12 Q Would you-¬
12 you can suggest something. Unfortunately I -I cannot
13 A. We didn't have the problem before. Now we got
13 think of how -how you get rid of that kind of a
14 it.
14 problem, especially without help of the church. I don't
15 Q. Wouldn't you consider maybe that if this is a
15 know what I can do.
16 guy whose clientele are people accused of crimes, that
16 Q. Okay.
17 just maybe -¬
17 A. Build a wall, I guess, and never come out or
18 A. Maybe the guy that uses the bathroom isn't with
18 that sort of thing, but I-I can't think of anything
19 the Beacon. Maybe the guy that does this, Maybe the
19 practical.
20 Q. Okay.
20 guy•• you know, you finally stretch that maybe just
21 about as far as you can stretch it.
21 A. Maybe there is that I just haven't thought of.
22 All right. Lacey Perry is another one.
22 Q. Okay. Well, let me gIve you a couple of
23 She owns the deli. I forgot to put down Richard Craig,
23 examples and see if you've thought about these as
24 who had the --which was Craig & Ally's at that point.
24 measures to perhaps mitigate your damages.
25 One of the rea~ons that they moved was because of the
25 The --the Beacon has hired security, off
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1 people from the Beacon coming around and coming in their
1 Q. Okay. Now, let's go back to your disclosures
2 shop and just the hassle.
2 for a minute. You identified Mr. Gluckman as one person
3 Q. Where did they move to?
3 who has some personal knowledge of these untoward
4 activities you mentioned, and --and said that he might
4 A. They moved out around the Medical Center and
5 be willing to testify.
5 opened another little restaurant.
6 Anyone else on that page that you've
6 And Lacey sometimes worked there late, and
7 talked to that would be willing to testify?
7 she was complaining about the people coming by and
8 A. All right. I talked with Robin Smith and Mark
8 looking in the door, shaking it, and trying to get in.
9 Harris with Triple A Quick Bonding, and the Ouick
9 And were saying, you know, I always keep this door
10 Bonding place is open 24fl. They're there at night,
10 locked. I'm not about to go outside. And they're
11 especially scared going to the parking lot or out on the
11 especially Mark. He runs things at night. He sees -¬
12 he sees everything. And I was visiting with him, and he
12 street.
13 said, you know, I'll tell you, you know, I just got my
13 MRS. ARTHUR: She's also the one that saw
14 car broken into. This never happened before. We've
14 the guy [inaudibleJ running _.
15 been here I think he said 15 years. And now we got
15 A. Yeah. And then -¬
16 MRS. ARTHUR: --byaparkedcar-¬
16 burglaries all up and down the street, break-ins, this
17 sort of thing.
17 THE COURT REPORTER: Excuse me.
18 Q. What kind of-¬
18 A.--somebody comes over and used the bathroom
19 A. They broke in my vehicle, they broke into his
,9 right outside the door.
20 vehicle, they vandalized --and all that --none of this
20 MR. VICKERY: Now, we've got to all be
21 was occurring until the Beacon opens.
21 good-¬
22 Q. So¬
22 MRS. ARTHUR: Sorry.
23 A. So he said, Yeah, I'll be glad to testify.
23 MR. VICKERY: "-because our court
24 Q. Post hoc ergo propter hoc?
24 reporter can only take one of us down at a time.
25 A. Do what again?
25 MRS. ARTHUR: I'm sorry.
Page 74
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1 THE COURT REPORTER: Excuse me.
1 Q. (By Mr. Vickery) You mentioned locking the
2 Q. (By Mr. Vickery) Post hoc ergo propter hoc?
2 doors, and that -that causes me to ponder about
3 You mean it happened after the folks started coming to
3 something. You know as a lawyer that a person who -¬
4 the Beacon, so we assume that the people who broke into
4 who claims money damages under Texas law has an
5 this bail bondsman's car were one of our clients? Is
5 obligation to take reasonable steps to mitigate their
6 that --is that the long and short of it?
6 damages, right?
7 A. He'd been there 13 years; it had never
7 A. Correct.
8 happened. Then they opened it --I don't know. Is that
8 Q. What have you done to mitigate the damages that
9 an unfair stretch? Doesn't seem like it to me.
9 you allege to be coming from the nuisance across the
10 Q. Well, I mean -¬
10 street from you?
11 A. Doesn't seem unfair to me.
11 A. I don't know what to do. There may be -maybe
12 Q. Would you -¬
'2 you can suggest something. Unfortunately I-I cannot
13 A. We didn't have the problem before. Now we got
13 think of how -how you get rid of that kind of a
14 it.
14 problem, especially without help of the church. I don't
15 Q. Wouldn't you consider maybe that if this is a
15 know what I can do.
16 guy whose clientele are people accused of crimes, that
16 Q. Okay.
17 just maybe-¬
17 A. Build a wall, I guess, and never come out or
18 A. Maybe the guy that uses the bathroom isn't with
18 that sort of thing, but I-I can't think of anything
19 the Beacon. Maybe the guy that does this. Maybe the
19 practical.
20 Q. Okay.
20 guy•• you know, you finally stretch that maybe just
21 about as far as you can stretch it.
21 A. Maybe there is that I just haven't thought of.
22 All right. lacey Perry is another one.
22 Q. Okay. Well, let me give you a couple of
23 She owns the deli. I forgot to put down Richard Craig,
23 examples and see if you've thought about these as
24 who had the --which was Craig & Ally's at that point.
24 measures to perhaps mitigate your damages.
25 The --the Beacon has hired security, off
25 One of the rea~ons that they moved was because of the
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Page 79 1 duty policemen, to provide security in the area. Do you
Page 77
1 A. I enum --I pretty much spelled it out in my
2 think that's a reasonable step to mitigate the effects
2 petition what the Beacon is doing or allowing to be done 3 of what goes on across the street?
3 by their clientele. 4 A. No. It tells me they know it's a problem.
4 Q. But you just told me not five minutes ago that
5 Like if I have my clients, and I have to get a polit:e
5 it would be perfectly reasonable and fine with you as 6 officer to take care of them and calm them down and
B long as they're doing it somewhere else. Isn't that 7 don't be bothering other things, my goodness, certainly
7 true? 8 means knowledge that you know these people are a problem
8 A. Like I say, I said I don't want to impose a big 9 and that you have to hire police officers? You're doing
9 problem like that on somebody else, but I'd rather it be 10 something good, but then have to hire police officers to 10 over there than in my front yard. 11 control these people?
11 Q. What you said was, that what we were doing is a 12 I don't know --am I expected to go out 12 perfectly reasonable and legitimate thing to do as long 13 and hire two bodyguards or two off duty police offIcers
13 as it was done somewhere else. 14 to walk with all my help when they get out and go walk
14 A. I don't think I said it-¬15 -going through the courthouse or going to their car or
15 Q. True? 16 walk them in?
16 A. --that way. I saidifyQu handle the number 17 Q. Was it a reasonable thing for the Beacon to do
17 of people that you can handle with your manpower and 18 to hire off duty police to provide some measure of
18 facilities, sure. But if you have five times more or 19 security there, or was that unreasonable thing to do?
19 ten times more than you can handle with your facilities, 20 A. Well, after you've created a big mess, that's a
20 no, it's completely unreasonable. 21 little bIt.
21 Q. Okay. You have no reason to believe that 22 Q Is it-¬
22 the --there's anything going on on the property of 23 A. At least it's a small step forward.
23 Christ Church Cathedral or the Beacon that is not a '4 Q. Okay.
24 legitimate, lawful, legal use of that property, do you? 2S A. Better than it was.
25 A. Only what the police tell me.
Page 78•
Page BO 1 Q. All right.
1 Q. And what do the police tell you? 2 A. No, that's --that's not really going to solve
2 A. Well, Captain Zera says, We have undercover 3 the problem.
3 cops over there in the Beacon and around the Beacon 4 Q. But it was reasonable to do it.
4 because of all the drug complaints and the drug problems S A. Sure.
5 that they're doing. This is where they exchange their 6 Q. And-¬
6 drugs. And so he says, You won't know it, and the
7 A. But it's unreasonable to be --be doing what
7 Beacon doesn't know it, but these are our officers that 8 they were doing. It's reasonable to get some security.
8 are over there doing it. So that's one incidence where 9 Q. Unreasonable to be doing ~~ I'm sorry, you're
9 I know they're doing it, and obvious .-and it's obvious 10 going to have to be more specific -¬
10 to anybody that drives down the street that this is a 11 A. To have that many people and just have them
11 problem that they're not doing anything about. 12 milling around. It's unreasonable to have them doing
12 Q. Okay. The -maybe I wasn't clear in the 13 that and imposing on your neighbors.
13 question. 14 Q. You and I need to have an agreement. Okay?
14 Do you have any reason to believe that 15 Because r don' want to be hit by the court reporter,
15 anyone that is employed by Christ Church Cathedral or 16 and I'm sure you don't either. So if you'll let me
16 the Beacon, or otherwise an agent of Christ Cl:lurch 17 finish the question, [ promise you I will let you finish
17 Cathedral or the Beacon, not our clients, but someone 18 your answer.
18 that's employed by us or controlled by us, is doing 19 MR. McKINNEY: Gentlemen, I think both of
HI anything that's unlawful on the premises? 20 y'all are talking pretty fast, if I'm reading the court
20 A. I don't•• I don't think any of the church 21 reporter right. Just¬
21 staff is selling drugs -or buying drugs, as far as I 22 Q. (By Mr. Vickery) Was it reasonable -what .¬
22 knowl but I don't have any way 01 knowing, but I'm sure 23 you said what they were doing was unreasonable, and so I
23 they're not. I'm not trying to say that. I'm saying 24 need you to tell me who is the "they," and what it is
24 these are their clients, and just like if they were my 25 that they were doing that's unreasonable.
25 clients or anybody on the street, if they were their
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1 open, and it's about 9;00 or 10;00 o'clock at night, and
1 clients -if you're going to attract them, If you're
2 agroup come in with masks on and make him get on his
2 going to have them, if that's your business, then you're
3 knees and hold a pistol up to his head. They're going
3 responsible for what they're doing.
4 to kill him. And they start saying stuff and doing
4 Q. So if I'm going to the basebalf game, and I'm
5 things, and instead of shooting him in the head, which
5 walking ~-let's say [ park in your garage --I mean,
6 he presumed was going to happen, they took a pistol and
6 your parking lot, which you --you do rent out for the
7 pistol whipped him. He wound up in the hospital for
7 baseball games, right?
8 about a week, and it took -well, he's still nof ¬
8 A. Correct.
9 he's still not over it. He's now moved to Pearland, and
9 Q. And one of your clients who's accused of a
10 all these good things that feeding those folks -but
10 crime like bops me over the head and steals some money
11 anyway, he's there because he's worked with homeless, he
11 from me right there on your property, can J sue Harry
12 knows the problems, and what can -you know, what
12 Arthur because your client did this?
13 happens. And that's¬
13 A. There might be certain instances where I hired
14 Q. I'm fascinated by this, and I know you're
14 somebody with that kind of --to like run the parking
15 trying to help me, but I ¬
15 lot, if he's had that kind of history. that kind of
16 A. That's the reason I listed him.
10 problem, if he's got a mental illness like so many of
17 Q. Have you talked to him about testifying in this
1
17 the Beacon's clientele do.
18 lawsuit?
18 Q. I'm not talking about your employee. I'm
19 A. No.
19 talking about your client. Not somebody that you employ
20 Q. Has he told you that it's not a good Christian
20 or payor control. I'm talking about your client.
21 thing to do to feed the homeless?
21 A. Far as I know, no.
22 A. I don't know what his attitude now is since
22 Q. Okay.
23 they pistol Whipped him, but I'm sure he would still
23 Now, I don' want to take all of our
24 think it's a good idea.
24 afternoon here going through this --this whole list,
25 Q. So you don' think that they -they pistol
25 but let me just ask you about a few folks.
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1 What on earth do Reverend and Mrs. Burgs
1 whipped the gospel out of him, do you?
2 from Pearland know about what's going on downtown?
2 A. No.
3 A. Reverend Burgs has been kind of a hero of mine
3 Q. Soif f were to call him and say, Reverend,
4 for the last 35 or 40 years.
4 Mr. Arthur has listed you as a potential witness in this
5 Q. Uh-huh.
5 case, is It a good Christian thing to do to teed the
6 A. He has a Tabernacle Baptist Church in -on
I 6 homeless? What you reckon he'd tell me?
7 Westover Street, and every so often he'll call and says,
7 A. Probably he would say yes.
8 Mr. Arthur, can you help us? We're going to take the
8 Q. Okay. Tell me what ~¬
9 kids --like one time take them to Disneyland or we're
9 A. But that's not what this lawsuit's all about.
10 going to carry them over to San Antonio to the Fiesta
10 What good to talk to him about that The lawsuit's not
11 world, and this kind of thing, or we're going to have
11 about feeding the homeless.
12 a •• a revival and we need to rent a tent, and I need
12 Q. Okay. Wetl, maybe I misunderstood-¬
,3 $500 or I need $750. I•• you know, can you help us?
13 A. It's the way they're doing it to impose on
14 Sure, come on by. He's a wonderful person.
14 their neighbors. That's what the lawsuit's about.
15 About ten years ago they started feeding
i5 Q. Okay. Tell me•¬
16 the people in their neighborhood, and he said, You know,
16 A. I've got no complaint against feeding them,
17 it's really wonderful, and we're helping all these
17 and•• and giving them laundry service, no. It's the
18 people and they're so hungry, and it's a wonderful thing
18 way that they do it.
19 we're doing. And he said w_ and in addition to that,
19 Q. In what way are we doing it-¬
20 It's pretty much gal Ihe word oul that nobody bothers
20 A. Well-¬
21 us. And I said, Isn't it pretty rough over there, and
21 Q. -that the lawsuit's about?
22 he said, Yeah, but the word's gotten out and let
22 A. I'll just repeat myself. In other words, they
23 everybody know you don't bother the church.
23 got too many people, more than they got the facility to
24 Well, about four years ago, I guess, he's
24 handle. They lock _. when they get through, they lock
25 in his office in the church, and they leave the doors
25 the doors and expect them to sleep on the street, tell
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1 them they can't sleep on their sidewalk, but go across
1 caused by clientele of the Beacon or encouraged by the
2 the street and sleep on their sidewalk.
2 employees of the Beacon?
3 Q. Let me stop you there. Who expects people to
3 A. I don't know that he was ever confronted or
4 sleep on the street?
4 those kind of things. No.
5 A. Obviously they do, I guess, or they say, Well,
5 Q. Now, is Cesar Ventura the guy that takes my
6 heck -you know, I don't know that they expect them to,
6 $10 or $20 if I park in your garage for the baseball
7 but that's what's been happening for three years.
7 games?
8 Q. Mr. Arthur, where do you expect homeless people
8 A. Correct.
9 to sleep?
9 Q. [Inaudible.]
10 A. Well, wherever they're sleeping tonight and
10 A. Actually, Ithink itls usually his son, but I
11 tomorrow night, when they're not sleeping on the
11 put down the father. But most of the time -I don't
12 sidewalks around the Beacon, 1don't know where that is.
12 that Cesar does it much anymore. It's usually his son.
13 I'm sure we could follow them, but they're sleeping
13 And also his son-In-law sometimes.
14 someplace else other than on our sidewalks.
14 Q. What, if anything, has he told you that he is
15 Q. So where -¬
15 aware of from his personal knowledge?
16 A. I~• 1would like for them go sleep there every
16 A. He hasn't.
17 night
17 Q. Well, how about Ed Hennessy, who you and I
18 Q. So you would Ijke for the homeless ~. you know
18 probably both know practiced Jaw here for ages and had
19a --the [unintelligible] court building there where the
19 they're going to sleep on the street somewhere, you just
20 Beacon is now, what on earth does he know about this
20 want it to be somebody else's street.
21 dispute?
21 A.I don't know it's on the street. I know a lot
22 A. Well, he knows how the area was before the
22 of them sleep under the freeways and underpasses and ¬
23 Beacon opened.
23 because they got to have some kind of shelter. There's
24 Q. Okay. Have you talked to him about testifying
24 not many shelters around the buildings. When it's rainy
25 in this lawsuit?
25 or cold, they don't so much do it.
Page 86
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1 A. No.
1 Q. Okay. Were you a parishioner of Reverend
2 Q. Now, I was --I was taken by Rachel
2 Burgs?
3 Gallegher --do you know Rachel Gallegher?
3 A. No.
4 A. No.
4 Q. I don't want to pry into your religious life,
S Q. Well, on what good faith basis do you allege
5 but do you have a church affiliation somewhere?
6 here that while she was working in the Cotton Exchange
6 A. Well, my wife does, and I go with her to the
7 southeast Church of Christ.
7 bUilding across the street from the Beacon, she was
8 Q. Okay. Anybody from your church on this list?
8 assaulted by a homeless person at the Christ Church
9 A. No.
9 facillty where she parked her car?
10 Q. Okay. What, if anything, to your knowledge,
10 A. I don't know how reliable my source was, but
11 does John Grady at the Brazoria County, Assistant
11 I got a telephone call, and said, Mr. Arthur, can I give
12 District Attorney's office know about what's going on in
12 you some information about this lawsuit you have with
13 downtown Houston, Texas, Harris County, Texas?
13 Beacon anonymously, and I said sure. And so she told me
14 A. Well, before he went to work for the District
14 about Rachel Gallegher, who was working in the Cotton
15 Attorney's office, he had an office with his wife, Pat,
15 Exchange building and what happened to her. And I
16 in our building, was in and out there and seeing what
16 haven't called Rachel to try to talk with her about it.
17 went on, and so that's the reason I put him down,
17 I--all this may have been --may not be true. I don't
18 because he's familiar with what goes on around the
18 know. But it sounded like something that -in the way
19 building.
19 the woman sounded awful sincere.
20 Q. When did he leave?
20 Q. Okay. RanI< hearsay from an anonymous phone
21 A. Well, he's still occasionally there, but not
21 call?
22 too often anymore now that he's working, but I don't
22 A. Essentially, yeah.
23 know. I guess a year ago.
23 Q. Okay.
24 Q. Did he ever recount to you that he had
24 A. But that's the way I operate on everything. We
25 personal, firsthand knowledge of some problem that was
25 have rank hearsay all the time. Sometimes it checks
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1 A. I'm sure they do it all the time.
1 out, sometimes it doesn't.
2 Q. Rickey Craig at the Hubcap Grill. You say he's
2 Q. Well, J see you --you cite Rudy Giuliani here.
3 been broken into and burglarized by the people attracted
3 Have you talked to Rudy Giuliani about testifying in
4 this case?
4 by the Beacon. How do you know that?
5 A. No. Mr. Giuliani and I haven't talked.
5 A. Same way. Just ~-didn't happen before, and
6 Q. You said here that he said it was inhumane to
6 then it happened atter the Beacon opened.
7 have people staying on the streets. Do you agree with
7 Q. Did Rickey Craig ten you this himself?
B that?
8 A. Yes.
9 A. Yes. I don't think it's a good thing to have
9 Q. Did he tell ~¬
10 them sleeping on the streets. I think we need to put
10 A. He didn't know it was from the Beacon. He just
11 them in shelters.
11 said, you know, Igot burglarized.
12 Q. Okay. Who --who is that "we"?
12 Q. Okay. All right.
13 A. The all encompassing "we."
13 A. Now, you skipped Rosemary and Nicole, and
14 Q. Okay.
14 Nicole says one of the people from the Beacon came
15 A. Me and you and everybody else who lives in
1S over and locked her in the off --came in, closed the
16 Houston.
16 door, and confronted her behind lock•~ you know, locked
17 Q. Okay.
17 the door, and scared her to death, and now they put
18 A. In other words, we pay our taxes, and they fund
18 locks on the door, and only let people in when they buzz
19 it, and they set up shelters, and I do know that we're
19 them in. And they are directly across the street.
20 spending millions of dollars to try to take care of
20 Q. Where is Rosemary _.
21 them.
21 A. Harris County Bail Bonds, 1223 Prairie.
22 O. Now, how about Catherine ~-I'll butcher this
22 Q. Okay.
23 name, a Vietnamese name, Nguyen, N-g-u -¬
23 Well, did putting a lock on the tront door
24 A. That's pronounced "Win."
24 and buzzing people in take care of that issue?
25 Q. -Nguyen or Paul Ta at Paul's Store? It says
25 A.I don't think they've been accosted in their
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1 here Paul's been burglarize~ by the homeless people
1 office since, but it seems .-but it certainly doesn't
2 served by the defendants.
2 make them rest easy.
3 What --what caused you to write that
3 Q. You know, we were talking earlier about the
4 down?
4 duty to mitigate, and --and you asked about things
5 A. I--that's my conjecture. That's where it
5 that --steps that people might take. Are YDU aware of
6 came from. We didn't have that problem before. Now, we
6 any steps that were taken by James Stafford and Deborah
7 got it.
7 Keyser to mitigate the effects of having a large
8 Q. Who told you that they are burglarized?
8 homeless population in their area?
9 A. She did.
9 A. Well, Ithink my understanding was that Deborah
10 Q. Catherine?
10 said that they erected a fence. There was a -like
11 A. Catherine.
11 a ~-I think where they parked their cars or something.
12 Q. And did she tell you it was by people from the
12 Anyway, kind of an alleyway. And this is where all the
13 Beacon?
13 drug deals and all the other things were -~ or a lot of
14 A. She wasn't there. She didn't see them. I
14 them, and other things, and all the trash, and so they
15 don't know that they had a closed-circuit camera that
15 spent $10,000 to put up a fence.
16 got anybody, but didn't have the problem before, now
16 Q. Uh~huh.
17 it's happened, well, like, say, three times in 2009 and
17 A. And now, you know, you say, Well, that
18 the last time January 1.
18 mitigated things, but should they have to spend $10,000
19 a. Did any-¬
19 because of the Beacon?
20 A. So it sounds like a reasonable stretch,
20 Q. Well, they do have a duty to mitigate their
21 assumption that it may be come --It's probably coming
21 damages, don't they?
22 from the Beacon when we didn't have this problem before.
22 A. I presume if somebody imposes that kind of
23 Q. Do any of the criminal defense lawyers in your
23 thing on you, you can do the best you can.
24 building represent people who are .-have actually been
24 Q. Well, I mean, if --if, in fact, you've been
25 indicted and charged with burglary?
25 damaged to the tune of $250.000, you'd sure spend
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1 $10,000 to mitigate those damages and then come to us
1 A. Correct.
2 Q. Okay. Well, you do know as a general rule that
2 and say, Hey, pay this $10,000. wouldn't you?
3 if --if a money damage's remedy is an adequate remedy,
3 A. If I COUld.
4 then a person's not entitled to injunctive relief, don't
4 Q. Okay. And so why haven't you? Why haven't you
5 you?
5 fenced in your parking lot the same as Deborah Keyser
6 and James Stafford have done?
6 A. I•• I think that's right.
7 Q. And --and you have sued for money damages.
7 A. I don't know that that's going to solve much of
8 A. Right.
8 a problem.
9 Q. Well, it solved their problem, didn't it?
9 Q. And --and you told me before we came here
10 today you probably wouldn't be able to really give me
10 A. Well, it solved the problem of all the trash,
11 the chapter and verse on your damage theory and _. but
11 but, no, it didn't solve their problems. They got a lot
12 that at some future time you or Mrs. Arthur could do
12 of problems with the Beacon.
13 Q. Mr. Arthur, as a lawyer, you know there's a
13 that, right?
14 distinction between legal remedies and equitable
14 A. Right.
15 Q. And you expect at some point in time yOU'll be
15 remedies. correct?
16 able to marshal some proof of the nature and magnitude
16 A. Correct.
17 Q. And you have sought both in this case.
17 of your money damages.
18 A. Correct.
18 A. Correct.
19 Q. Now, did you do any legal research to determine
19 Q. The equitable remedy being a court injunction
20 to shut down the Beacon.
20 the availability under Texas law of injunctive relief
21 A. Correct.
21 for a private nuisance where a person was claiming money
22 Q. Now, if you're right that what we're doing is a
22 damages?
23 A_ No.
23 legal nuisance, and if you're right that it's damaged
24 Q. Okay,
24 you, and if you're right that you can quantify your
25 Do you have either any witness statements
25 damages, then why aren't the legal remedies adequate?
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1 A. I don't think there's any way that you can run
1 or affidavits from any person?
2 this operation without it imposing on your neighbors.
2 A. No.
3 If there is, I'll be pleasantly surprised and be quite
3 Q. The --The Marine Building was built in 1935,
4 appreciative. If there is a way of running it where it
4 correct?
5 won't impact your neighbors. But they haven't exhibited
5 A. I'm not sure that's right. Seemed like I saw
6 any of --anything so far.
6 something ¬
7 Q. Nc. I'm assuming, for purpose of my question,
7 MRS. ARTHUR: There's a discrepancy.
8 that you're right, that what we do impacts our
B A. I would say 1928.
9 neighbors, and that our neighbors can quantify their
9 MRS. ARTHUR: There's a discrepancy.
10 damages and after mitigation, sue us for them, and if
10 There are some County records that say 1928. There-¬
" they prove their allegations, then they can recover. I
11 we have since seen some that say in the '30s. I don't
12 just want to know, if thars the case, in other words,
12 know.
13 if you can prove your entitlement to $250,000 in
13 Q. (By Mr. Vickery) r just got that from that
14 damages, why do you also think you need in addition to
14 appraisal you gave me last night.
15 that a court injunction to shut things down?
15 A. I think that something I read said 1928. Where
16 A. Because there's such a thing as use and
16 that came from, I don't recall. I don't know the exact
17 enjoyment of your property. If you've done this
17 answer to that.
18 activity and it reduced the value of the building and my
18 Q. Now, the site of your building, the ground,
19 business, then that's one thing. But what about
19 actually has some historical significance, correct?
20 tomorrow. the next day, next month, next year? It
20 A. That's my understanding, yes.
21 continues, unless you're shut down or unless you start
21 Q. Relates to Sam Houston.
22 operating differently so that you're not affecting.
22 A. Well, I think there's a plaque on --well, or
23 Q. I thought that you were claiming damages being
23 not think --I know there's a plaque on the side of the
24 the alleged diminution of fair market value of your
24 building that said that when Houston was the capital of
25 building. Are you?
25 Texas, this was Sam Houston's home.
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1 Q. Okay.
1 what it is, it's a soup kitchen?
2 A. And in 2009, it's 131.
2 A. Well, I have a lot of poor people that come in
3 Q. Okay. So in those years, you're still in the
3 my office, and they don't look like the people that are
4 range between 130 and 140l right?
4 across the street. I have a lot of people who are on
5 A. Correct.
5 Social Security, have 3-or $400 a month, they don't
6 Q. Now, do you contend that that $5000 or so a
6 look like the people that are in -in --the clients at
7 year in average, if we averaged them all up, is related
7 the Beacon.
8 to the operation of the Beacon?
B Q. You have been sued by a gentleman named
9 A. I --I don't know that I -I'd have to -I
9 Hamilton. I
10 don't know. I really don't know.
10 A. Yes, sir.
1i Q. All right. Ballpark, though, in terms of the
11 Q. You produced a copy of that --of his lawsuit
12 gross revenues for each of these years, it stayed pretty
12 against you.
13 stable over the course of the last six years, hasn't it?
13 A. Right.
14 A. That's the way it looks.
'4 Q. Have you answered that lawsuit?
15 Q. Have you had any occasion to list the value of
15 A. Yes, sir.
16 this property on a personal financial statement like for
16 Q. Okay. And do you see there where he took great
17 a bank?
17 umbrage at being called a derelict?
18 A. There may have been something with --well,
18 A. Yes, sir.
19 that's the reason they did an appraisal,l guess. No.
19 Q. Can you understand how a person might not
20 That I --other than maybe with Wachovia.
20 appreciate being branded as a derelict?
21 Q. Back in '06 for the refinancing?
21 A.I don't know a more appropriate term. There
22 A. Yeah.
22 may be.
23 Q. You don't have, Ilke, a line of credit that•¬
23 (Cell phone ringing.)
24 where you have to provide personal financial statements
24 MRS. ARTHUR: I'm sorry.
25 every year to your bank?
25 MR. VICKERY: That's okay.
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1 MRS. ARTHUR: I didn't know-¬
1 A. No.
2 Q. And no other occasion to prepare a personal
2 A. Also, I might point out that let's you know
3 financial statement?
3 what kind of people •-I'm sure he doesn't represent
4 A. No.
4 all, but some -a substantial number have got mental
5 Q. All right.
5 problems that are over there and are scary, and the
6 Do you have any idea what kind of food we
6 threats he makes to me, I'm probably too dumb to
7 serve to the clientele of the Beacon?
7 appreciate -maybe rjust kind of laugh at some of his
8 A. No, Idon't.
8 jokes, but my wife is very concerned, and all the women
9 Q. If it's true, as I'll tell you it is, that they
9 in my building are very concerned, and probably I should
10 have good, hot meals with choice of entrees, would you
10 be that somebody of that mentality is upset ¬
11 retract the --the brand of soup kitchen?
11 Q. (By Mr. Vickery) Uh•huh.
12 A. and says that he wants to physically
WM
12 A. I don't know. That's the only term that I've
13 heard used for something like that. 1--there might be
13 confront me.
14 Q. Are you a veteran?
14 a more fitting term. I don't know what that would be
15 exactly, but that's what I would call it. If some-¬
15 A. No.
16 and --well, that I put down.
16 Q. Did you see where in his lawsuit Mr. Hamilton
17 Q. So any time-¬
17 said he's an honorably discharged veteran from the
1B A.If there's a better fitting term, I-I don't
18 United States Navy?
19 think --when you say "soup kitchen," I think people
19 A. Yes, sir.
20 recognize you don't just serve soup.
20 Q. Can you understand how someone that has served
21 Q. I mean, doesn't that conjure up sort of hurtful
21 their country in that capacity might not appreciate
22 images in your mind to call an operation a soup kitchen?
22 being called a derelict?
23 A. Well, the -all you got to do is look at your
23 A. He said if I called him that out at sea, I
24 clientele, and it's a poor image.
24 would be lost at sea.
25 Q. So poor people are eating the food. No matter
25 O. Okay.
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1 ways of figuring rental square feet, and one is New York
1 Well, I begin by an apology to you for any
2 way, and I forget what the other one --term for the
2 communication problems, and 1was going to kind of end
3 by asking you if you'd like to apologize 10 our
3 other -but one is you figure the actual square feet in
4 cHentele for calling them derelicts, but I gather you
4 an office, and the other is you apportion everything
5 wouldn't.
5 baSed on the common areas, the restrooms, the reception
6 A. If there's a more appropriate term for people
6 area, the halls, and then you apportion each one. So I
7 don't know which way we did it the last time we did it,
7 that are living on the street, working either none or
8 and I don't even know what the numbers are. But it's
8 sporadically, have to get a free meal, I ~~ I don't -I
9 don't think it's -I'm not going to apologize for using
9 about 5000 each floor, but each floor has a little
10 thatterm, no.
10 reception area -well, there's not on the first floor,
11 Q. Okay. Well, I just wanted to give you the
11 thinking about it. But there is a reception area on the
12 chance to do that if you felt it in your heart to do so.
12 second and third floor, and -and then there's a
13 MR. VICKERY; I need to conferwn:h
13 hallway down the middle.
14 Mr. McKinney. As I told you, most of my questions
14 MR. VICKE:RY: The listing agreement up
15 really are on behalf of CHOM, somewhat overlapping with
15 there in front of you might help. I think when you
16 the Cathedral. He may have additional areas, a few
16 listed it, you said 14,400.
17 additional questions himself, or -~ or ~-to askmeto
17 A. Well, it just says" building square feet." I
18 ask them. But he and I need to take about a two~minute
18 don't know -I would think 144 when you're figuring the
19 break. If --y'aU can sit still or go to the _.
19 actual rentable part, but it's 5000 a floor.
2D THE WITNESS: That's fine.
20 Q. (By Mr. McKinney) All right, sir. And do you
21 MR. VICKERY: --bathroom, whatever you
21 know what rate you get per square foot \0 rent that
22 want to do.
22 property, or does it vary from tenant to tenant?
23 THE WITNESS: That's fine.
23 A. I think Kathy is taken the approach that if
24 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Off the record at 3:44.
24 they look like they've got some money and they will keep
25 {A recess was taken from 3:44 p.m. to
25 paying, we're {l{ling to work a deal, you know, some money
Page 110
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t 3:46 p.m.)
1 is better than no money.
2 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We're back on the
2 No, I don't know exactly how much a square
3 record at 3:46.
3 foot we're charging.
4 EXAMINATION
4 MRS. ARTHUR: Well, the last --I don't
5 BY MR. McKINNEY:
5 know how many square feet that is --the last tenant
6 Q. I'm Andrew McKinney. I'm going to try to be
6 that came In, the attorney that had been there before,
7 brief, but you know when a lawyer says he's going to try
7 had been paying $900 for two offices. He's now paying
B to be brief, he's probably going to need to go home and
8600.
9 shave.
9 Q. (By Mr. McKinney) For the same amount of square
10 To tuck in a couple of detailed points,
10 feet?
11 how many rentable square feet do you have in your
11 MRS. ARTHUR: Same amount of square feet.
12 building?
12 Q. (By Mr. McKinney) All right. And we've gone
13 MR. McKINNEY: And Ms. Arthur, if you
13 over the numbers. It looks like your rent --aggregate
14 happen to know -¬
14 rents have remained more or less the same over the last
15 A. Well-¬
15 four or five years.
16 Q. (By Mr. McKinney) Excuse me. I dont mean to
16 MRS. ARTHUR: It's about a $9000
17 cut you off.
17 difference,
18 MR. McKINNEY: If you happen to know the
18 Q. (By Mr. McKinney) $9000 decrease?
19 answer, and you wantto raise your hand, or wait for
19 MRS. ARTHUR: Uh-huh.
20 your husband to finish, we'll get your answer. I'll be
20 Q. (By Mr. McKinney) All right.
21 just fine with that
21 MRS. ARTHUR: Nine to ten.
22 MRS. ARTHUR: Well, he probably knows the
22 Q. (By Mr. McKinney) Do you --when you yourself
23 answer.
23 pay rent, do you charge yourself the same amount you
24 A. Well, he probably doesn't.
24 charge your other tenants?
25 Well, my understanding is, therets two
25 MRS. ARTHUR: No, we probably pay more
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1 of in the middle of your answer you said that for the
1 because we usually wind up paying for the taxes, this
2 year they're going to be 35,000.
2 most part, they hang out at that building. Were you
3 Q. (By Mr. McKinney) All right Let me ask you
3 referring to the building across the street, the Beacon?
4 some questions about the nuisance aspect of the --of
4 A. The Beacon, yes.
5 the Beacon.
5 Q. All right. And in case it becomes important
6 It's --as I understand it, it's the
6 for our jury, I would like to get as good of a
7 homeless people who are across the street at the Beacon
7 description as J can from you and from your wife of the
8 waiting to eat or after they've eaten waiting around
8 homeless traffic, if you will, that actually enters your
9 that's the principal source of your complaint Is that
9 property or the sidewalk adjacent to your property on
10 right?
10 a --you know, you pick the time frame, daily, weekly,
11 A. Correct.
11 monthly --and are they, you know, walking down the
12 Q. And do I understand correctly that some of
12 sidewalk, or are they camping out on the sidewalk? And
13 these folks from time to time will cross the street
13 we're talking daytime hours right now. We'll talk about
14 and --and be on your property?
14 the sleeping numbers in just a minute.
15 A. Yes.
15 A. I just don't have the time, and I don't make
16 Q. And is that a daily occurrence, that is, every
16 the lime to be watching the people from the Beacon. You
17 day that the Beacon is open you will find one or more
17 know, it's bad enough you got to put up with it, but
18 Beacon clients on your property, or is that-¬
18 then to take out of your day and spend productive time
19 A. I would say yes. It's a daily occurrence.
19 monitoring their actions, I just haven't done that and
20 Q. All right.
20 don't intend to do it.
21 A.Of course, not all, but some, few.
21 Q. And I understand. I understand that, you know,
22 Q. Okay. And hereIS what I'm trying to get to.
22 you're inside working, you're not outside looking. I'm
23 Can you give me an idea about a rough estimate of how
23 wondering it you can gIve me an idea, or if your wife
24 many times a day, how many times a week, and how many
24 can give me an idea, about how much of --or how many of
25 clients come onto your property as opposed to stay
25 the Beacon clients, you know, a half a dozen a day, a
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1 across the street at the Beacon?
1 dozen a day become --are on your property or adjacent
2 A. When I'm at the office, I'm usually pretty
2 to your property in a way that is offensive and
3 bUSy. I don't have time, and I haven't set up a camera
3 troubling to you or your tenants.
4 to take R.
4 MRS. ARTHUR; I get there later in the day
5 Q. I understand.
5 than Harry does.
6 A.~• pictures. I don't even look out the window
6 Q. (By Mr. McKinney) Okay.
7 all that much. I'm pretty much live and let live until
7 MRS. ARTHUR: I get there probably closer
B something bothers me, and I start paying a little more
8 to noontime.
9 attention. In other words, when you live -when you're
9 Q. (By Mr. McKinney) All right.
10 downtown and panhandlers'come up, you just don't make
10 MRS. ARTHUR: More like 11 :00.
11 eye contact and you keep on walking. And with these, me
11 Q. (By Mr. McKinney) Okay.
12 personally, not all that many times -when I went to
12 MRS. ARTHU.R: When I pull in, there is
13 the courthouse, there was a guy trying to pan •• borrow
13 invariably frve, sometimes more.
14 Q. (By Mr. McKinney) Sidewalk or actually on your
14 some money R' you know, panhandle some money, but
15 generally, they kind of stay around that building, on
15 property?
16 the sidewalks and this kind of thing, and just milling
16 MRS. ARTHUR: Well, what is our property?
17 I mean, you know, is it the -is it two feet in front
17 around.
18 Q. When you say ~¬
18 of your building, or is it the sidewalk in front of your
19 building, or --or is it whenever they're going to the
19 A. The big aggravation is at night when they sleep
20 bathroom and you're pulling in and there they are going
20 on the sidewalks. Now, I'm not down there at night, so
21 to the bathroom outside of your building in your parking
21 it doesn't bother me all that much except the -the
22 lot? I mean, what --I'm not familiar as to the legal
22 principal of the thing, I guess. I think there's a
23 aspects of --of that.
23 better way of doing it rather than sleeping on the
24 Q. (By Mr. McKinney) Fair point.
24 sidewalk.
25 MRS. ARTHUR: So Pm just saying
25 Q. And I understand what you're saying, and kind
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1 Q. Let me try to understand. I mean, I've seen
1 That's all we're saying.
2 gates around aU sizes and kinds of property. And you
2 Q. (By Mr. McKinney) And I appreciate that.
3 can't have a fence with a sliding gate that slides to
3 MRS. ARTHUR: I'm sorry. I got off on
4 one side and your car --car drives out of your lot and
4 that tangent.
5 over the adjoining lot and into the street?
5 MR. McKINNEY: It's alright.
6 MRS. ARTHUR: I'm sorry. I'm sorry.
6 A. I guess I'm missing something. You mean
7 MR. McKINNEY: We were going to hear it
7 because the church wants to put in a soup kitchen, I've
8 one of these days. We're happy to hear it ~¬
8 got to put up a fence?
9 MRS. ARTHUR: And I just .. you know, It's
9 Q. We'll talk about who pays for it later. I'm
10 not that we --11m sorry.
10 just asking MM
11 MR. McKINNEY: We're killing our court
11 A. No, it's impractical. I don't know how you
12 reporter.
12 could do it. I guess you could spend enough and people
13 MRS. ARTHUR: You want --you want a
13 could come In -I don't know how you'd get it open and
14 number of people only, and I'm telling you that it
14 closed, and all these kinds of things, but I have people
15 varies.
15 that park over there that just come through. We got
16 MR. McKINNEY: All right. And•• and I
16 people that go to the bonding company that just drive
17 appreciate everything you've said. We were going to
17 through our parking lot. It's not just people that park
18 hear it one --today or another di3Y, and so your input
18 there. And they pay -they don't have contract parking
19 and your observations are very valuable.
19 next door in the Laz parking lot, it's dally, and
20 Q. (By Mr. McKinney) What I'm trying to imagine
20 logistically, I don't know how you would do It.
21 here is, would it make a difference with respect to your
21 If the Beacon would just keep their people
22 parking lot if there was a fence around it the way your
22 over in t~eir building, it wouldn't be a problem. We
23 neighbors, Mr. Stafford and Ms.-¬
23 don't need to build a fence. And provide bathroom
24 MR. VICKERY: Keyser.
24 facilities for them.
25 Q. (By Mr. McKinney) Ms. Keyser have put up a
MM
25 Q. And I don't think anyone -right. I
Page 122
Page 124
1 fence? Do you think that would make a difference?
1 understand. The question, though, is if a fence were
2 We'll talk about the money angle and with ¬
2 feasible, and without regard to who paid for it, would
3 MRS. ARTHUR: Well, here's -¬
3 the presence of a fence that would keep these folks out,
4 A. I'll answer that. We can't put up a fence.
4 would that be a meaningful assistance or a meaningful
5 MRS. ARTHUR: I can't M'
5 improvement to the current situation?
6 Q. (By Mr. McKinney) You got to let me finish.
6 MRS. ARTHUR: Well, it would help those
7 Without respect to who pays for it, and
7 people possibly that park --it would keep people from
8 we'll get to -¬
8 defecating around my cars. It would help that. It
9 A. No, and let me explain. You don't even need to
9 would not help our secretaries that are waiting for
10 ask that question.
10 their husbands to come by and pick them up. It wouldn't
11 We own 50 by 100. Then there's another
11 help those people that were walking in and out of the
12 parking lot past that in an L shape that goes out MM it
12 building. Now, I mean, I can appreciate what you're
13 comes out on Prairie Street and goes out on Caroline
13 saying, and it would help in that the parking lot would
14 Street. That does not belong to us. It belongs to laz
14 then be protected, and that would be an appreciated
15 Parking. For us to get in and out, we have to go out
15 effort. It wouldn't help the secretaries not being able
16 to walk in and out by themselves --or, you know~¬
16 through their -sometimes we go -or we have to go
17 around to get out on Caroline Street, or we have to
Hit...
18 go •• I mean, on Prairie Street, or we go out over their
18 Q. (By Mr. McKinney) And my next question is, if
19 there was a means or mechanism for MM in addition to the
19 parking lot into Caroline Street, and they do vice
20 fence, a means or a mechanism for keeping the sidewalks
20 versa. They'll come over on ours. But there's no way I
21 around your building clear on a consistent and reliable
21 can fence it in, if I thought that was a remedy.
22 and predictable basis, if we had those two things
22 Because we still got the -the other parking lot,
23 together, would that --would the combination of those
23 Lands' parking lot. And you got people coming in all
24 two things be a ~atisfactory solution to your problem?
24 hours of the day -day and sometimes at night because
25 A. Well, it wouldn't be a solution, but it'd be a
25 we got the bonding companies there.
I
HANNA & HANNA, INC.
(713) 840-8484
Page 32 (Pages 125-128) HARRY C. ARTHUR . January 26, 2010
Page 125 1 little bit of a help.
2 MRS. ARTHUR: It would be an assistance.
, A. Yeah.
4 MAS. ARTHUR: [don't know that it would 5 help in the market value of the building. I mean, 6 that's just my personal opinion. And I'm not a broker. 7 Q. (By Mr. McKinney) Right. In terms of your
8 day~to•day activities, though, would those two things -¬9 MRS. ARTHUR: It would be an assistance.
10 I would no longer have to spray wash the parking lot. 11 Q. (By Mr. McKinney) How often are you having to 12 do that, if I may ask you? 13 MRS. ARTHUR: Oh. Depending on -¬14 frequently. t5 Q. (By Mr. McKinney) Twice a month? Five times a 16 month? 17 MRS. ARTHUR: I would say at leasi once a 18 week, that we're out there cleaning up. 19 Q. (By Mr. McKinney) When did you get your offer 20 of $750,000? What year was that? 21 MRS. ARTHUR: A few months ago. 22 Q. (By Mr. McKinney) And are you in the process of 23 actively trying to sell the property right now? 24 MRS. ARTHUR: Yes, I am. 25 Q. (By Mr. McKinney) Have you had --have you ever
Page 126
1 had an offer on your property at any time that you've 2 owned it of greater than $750,000? 3 MRS. ARTHUR: No. 4 Q. (By Mr. McKinney) Have you ever had another 5 offer to purchase your property other than the $750,000 6 offer? 7 MRS. ARTHUR: In the two years, that's the 8 only offer. 9 Q. (By Mr. McKinney) Since you've owned the
10 property.
11 MRS. ARTHUR: That's been written down in
12 the two years.
13 Q. (By Mr. McKinney) Okay.
14 MRS. ARTHUR: I wasn't trying to sell it
15 before.
16 Q. (By Mr. McKinney) Prior to -¬
17 MRS. ARTHUR: So I wouldn't have had an
18 offer.
19 MR. VICKERY: You've got to let him
20 finish.
21 Q. (By Mr. McKinney) Prior to receiving the
22 $750,000 offer, had you ever had an offer on your
23 property at any time prior to this most recent offer?
24 MRS. ARTHUR: Huh-uh. May I say
25 something?
Page 127 1 MR. McKINNEY: Fire away. 2 MRS. ARTHUR: Since Harry's offices are
3 there, there would've been no reason for anyone to ever 4 think that we wanted to sell it. And we had thought of 5 living there. So it ~-it was never anything that we 6 thought about doing until the last couple years, selling 7 it.
• MR. McKINNEY: I believe that's alii 9 have. Thanks very much.
10 (Time noted: 4:10p.m.)
11 FURTHER EXAMINATION
12 BY MR. VICKERY: 13 Q. Just a couple of quick ones to follow up on 14 him.
15 If it's listed now, what is the current
16 list price?
17 MRS. ARTHUR: 1.6.
1. Q. (By Mr. Vickery) Okay. 19 MR. VICKERY: That's alii have.
20 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: That concludes the
21 deposition. We're off the record at 4:11. 22 (Deposition concluded at 4:11 p.m.)
23 -.--¬24 25
Page 128
1 CHANGES ANa SIGNATURE
2 WITNESS NAME: HARRY C. ARTHUR DATE: 1/26f2Q1Q 3 PAGE LINE CHANGE REASON 4
5
6
7
8
9 10 11 12 13 14 t5 16 17
t. 19 20 21
22
23 24 25
HANNA & HANNA, INC.
(713) 840-8484
Page 33 (Pages 129-132) HARRY C. ARTHUR -January 26, 2010
Page 129
Page 131
1 1, HARRY C. ARTHUR, have read the foregoing
, deposition:
2 Mr. Arthur (OhOm) Attorney for Pro Se
2 deposition and hereby affix my signature that same is
3 true and correcl, except as noted above.
3 Mr. Vickery (2h04m)
4
Attorney for the Defendants
5
4 Mr. McKinney (Oh24m)
Attorney for the Defendants
6 HARRY C. ARTHUR
5
7
6 That a copy of this certificate was served on all
8 THE STATE OF~ ,I
7 parties shown herein on and filed 9 COUNTY OF )
8 with the Clerk.
9 I further certify that I am neither counsel for, 10 related to, nor employed by any of the parties in the
10
11 Before me, , on this day 11 action in which this proceeding was taken, and further
12 personally appeared HARRY C. ARTHUR, known to me or
12 that I am not financially or otherwise interested in the
13 proved to me under oath or through _
13 outcome of this action.
14 Further certification requirements pursuant to 15 Rule 203 of the Texas Code of Civil Procedure will be
14 (description of identity card or other document) to be
15 the person whose name is subscribed to the foregoing
16 complied with after they have occurred.
16 instrument and acknowledged to me that he/she executed
17 Certified to by me on this day of
17 the same for the purpose and consideration therein
18 ,__.
Dtgll.ly aigned by Micheli. II Wil!am..,., Dale 201Q.02.051402Z,10 -.o8;{)Q Rooson: I am 'ha au""'rel ..... doctJ"",nl
19
18 expressed.
20
~oca~on. ll""h8"lIl. 1A
, 9 Given under my hand and seal of office on this __
21
20 day of .__
22 Michelle R. Williamson, CSR 21
Texas CSR #4471
23 Expiration: 12/31/11 Firm Registration No. 561
22
23 NOTARY PUBLIC IN AND FOR 24 1225 North Loop West Sle 327
24 THESTATEOF _
Houston, Texas 77008 25 My Commission Expires:
25 (713) 840-8484
Page 130
Page 132
1 CAUSE NO. 2009-75693
1 FURTHER CERTIFICA1"ION UNDER TRCP RULE 2D3 2 HARRY C. ARTHUR AND ) IN THE DISTRICT COURT
2
THE MARINE BUILDING, )
3 The original deposition was/was not returned to the 3 L.LC. )
4 deposition officer on ---=c-----c--¬)
5 If returned, the attached Changes and Signature
4 VS. ) HARRIS COUNTY, TEXAS
6 page{s) contain(s) any changes and the reasons therefor. )
7 If returned, the original deposition was delivered
5 CHRIST CHURCH CATHEDRAL )
8 to Mr. Arnold Anderson (Andy) Vickery, Custodial
AND THE BEACON ) 234TH JUDICIAL DISTRICT
9 Attorney. 6
10 $ is the deposition officer's charges to the 7
11 Defendants for preparing the original deposition and any
8 REPORTER'S CERTIFICATE
12 copies of exhibits; 9 ORAL DEPOSITION OF HARRY C. ARTHUR
13 The deposition was delivered in accordance With Rule
10 January 26, 2010
14 203.3, and a copy of this certificate, served on all
11
15 parties shown herein, was filed with the Clerk.
12 I, Michelle R. WillJamson, Certified Shorthand
16 Certified to by me on this day of
13 Reporter in and for the State of Texas, hereby certify 17
14 to the following: 18
15 That the transcript of the deposition of HARRY C. 19
16 ARTHUR is a true record of the testimony given by the 20
17 witness; 18 That the deposition transcript was duly submitted on
21 22 Michelle R. Williamson, CSR
19 to the witness or to the attorney for 20 the WITness for examination, signature, and return to me
Texas CSR #4471 23 Expiration: 12131111
21 by::c------,--,--¬.--'
Firm Registration No, 581
22 That pursuant to information given to,the deposition
24 1225 North Loop West, Ste. 327
23 officer at the time said testimony was taken, the
24 following includes all parties of record and the amount
Houston, Texas 77008
25 of time used by each party at the time of the
25 (713) 840-8484
HANNA & HANNA, INC.
(713) 840-8484
HANNA & HANNA, INC.
1225 North Loop West, Suite 327 • Houston, TX 77008 • Phone: 713.840.8484 .. Fax: 713.626.1966
Job No. 58942
SIGNATURE NOTICE -ATTORNEY
February 8, 20I0
Harry Arthur Law Office of Harry C. Arthur 1305 Prairie, Suite 200 Houston, TX 77002
Re: Deposition of Harry C. Arthur taken on 01126/2010 No. 2009-75693 Arthur, et al vs. Christ Church Cathedral and the Beacon
Dear Mr. Arthur:
Enclosed are the following items for the deposition ofHarry C. Arthur
Original Transcript
xWitness Reading Copy (with original signature pages for wi1ness changes)
Copy set of deposition (if ordered)
Instructions:
I. Wi1ness changes need to be noted only on the wi1ness change/correction pages.
2. Returo notarized Wi1ness changes/correction pages WITHIN 20 days.
3. Returo Original transcript (if marked above).
Please call ifyou have any questions.
Enclosures
cc: Arnold A. "Aody" Vickery
THE MARINE BUILDING,
3
L.L.C.
)))
4
vs. ) HARRIS COUNTY, TEXAS
5 CHRIST CHURCH CATHEDRAL AND THE BEACON
))
) 234TH JUDICIAL DISTRICT
6
7
8
9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18
REPORTER'S CERTIFICATE
ORAL DEPOSITION OF HARRY C. ARTHUR
January 26, 2010
I, Michelle R. Williamson, Certified Shorthand Reporter in and for the State of Texas, hereby certify to the following:
That the transcript of the deposition of HARRY C. ARTHUR is a true record of the testimony given by the witness;
That the deposition transcript was duly submitted on
I
jJ,lejiO
to the witness or to the attorney for
19
20
21 22 23 24 ~ 25
the witness for examination, signature, and return to me
by __-=,.3~ltl.-'-I+/C-'1_
0=-----¬
That pursuant to information given to the deposition officer at the time said testimony was taken, the following includes all parties of record and the amount of time used by each party at the time of the
HANNA & HANNA, INC.
(713) 840-8484
a293b29S-d868-49d6-9829-dcdo95bfc33b
._.
Page 131
HARRY C. ARTHUR• January 26, 2010
r---------------..
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24
'-:-1
25
deposition:
Mr _ Arthur (OhOm)
Attorney for Pro Se
Mr. Vickery (2h04m)
Attorney for the Defendants
Mr. McKinney (Oh24m)
Attorney for the Defendants
That a copy of this certificate was served on all
parties shown herein on and filed
with the Clerk.
I further certify that I am neither counsel for,
related to, nor employed by any of the parties in the
action in which this proceeding was taken, and further
that I am not financially or otherwise interested in the
outcome of this action.
Further certification requirements pursuant to
Rule 203 of the Texas Code of civil Procedure will be
complied with after they have OCCU17Cd.
Certified to by me on this 8 day of
~[)
Digitally signed by Michelle R Williamson
;;, . ,Y" fl'" . ,G~_ Date: 2010.02.05 14:32:09 -08:00 UVL.d~.,{,!LUL UJ~h_..AJ To...-' Reason: I am the author ofthis .. document Location: Rosharon, TX
Michelle R. Williamson, CSR Texas CSR #4471 Expiration: 12/31/11 Firm Registration No. 581 1225 North Loop West, Ste. 327 Houston, Texas 77008
(713) 840-8484
HANNA & HANNA, INC.
(713) 840-8484
a293b29S-da6B-49d6-9829-dcd095bfc33b
Page 132
HARRY C. ARTHUR .. January 26, 2010
1
FURTHER CERTIFICATION UNDER TRCP RULE 203
2
3
The original deposition was/was not returned to the
4
deposition officer on no Id,:h?e.J.r ('U'fen..fe-V<-&',r(.
5
If returned, the attached Changes and Signature
6
page(s) contain(s) any changes and the reasons therefor.
7
If returned, the original deposition was delivered
8
to Mr. Arnold Anderson (Andy) Vickery, Custodial
9
Attorney.
10
$ %/2.,30 is the deposition officer I S charges to the
11
Defendants for preparing the original deposition and any
12
copies of exhibits;
13
The deposition was delivered in accordance with Rule
14
203.3, and a copy of this certificate, served on all
15
parties shown herein, was filed with the Clerk.
Certified to by me on this Z '3'ftfL.-day of
1.6
1.7 18
19
20
21
22
23
24
,-------\
' , 25
2-0 (0
Michelle R. Williamson, CSR
Texas CSR #4471
Expiration: 12/31/11
Firm Registration No. 581
1225 North Loop West, Ste. 327
Houston, Texas 77008
(713) 840-8484
HANNA & HANNA, INC.
(713) 840-8484
a293b295-dB6B-49d6-9829-dcd09Sbfc33b
